Gretsch Duojet and Filtertrons

[eatswodo]

AFAIK it's the HiLo'trons that have the reputation for being wimpy....

[ozover50]

I reckon you're correct there, John.

[jingle_jangle]

I spent another couple of hours last night with my new Anniversary sunburst. (Don't worry, I give the Rickenbackers more than equal time!) And I say: don't buy into that reputation!

Plugged into my Valvetronix Tonelab SE, with about 70% bridge and 30% neck, and the SE's "Telebend" preset, those HiLo Trons pull off a totally convincing "Nowhere Man" middle eight. They simply rock! I can't get the same sound from my 381, but I'm trying just to prove something to myself. The Anniversary will also play clean jazz leads at a flip of a switch. It will get a little brown and fuzzy, but a Les Paul it ain't--no hummers. And I'm happy about that.

I sort of outgrew Les Pauls back around 1980, although I did keep my '70 Les Paul Personal around until '96--the most flexible of all LPs with single coil, low-impedance pickups. And nobody wanted these. Fashion triumphs over excellence once again.

The Hi Los, being single coils, do not have the warmth of Filter Trons. Their output is lower. But don't sell 'em short until you've spent some time with 'em. I think it's all the Brian Setzer wannabees (who keep Gretsch in the black these days!) who are stirring up the troops on this one. Don't knock 'em, guys--George played 'em for years and he was the tecchie among the Four.

I was going to replace the HLs with FTs--it's why I originally ordered the TV Jones FTs. That plan has switched and now the TVs will go onto the project Duo Jet, which should be completed next week if all the bits arrive in time.

[ozover50]

BTW, Paul, how is the Tonelab SE going? Happy with it? Is 'Valvetronix' the brand or is it 'Vox Valvetronix'?

[jingle_jangle]

Howard:

I just moved into a cottage in the hills above Mill Valley, CA. I had to sign a "neighborhood quality" agreement, in return for a warranty of "peaceful possession." If you can believe that.

Don't worry, this story has an ending.

Anyway, one result of this is that at night, while at home the amplifiers can't be cranked up here. Daytime is OK, however. I do probably 70% of my noodling between 11 pm and 3 or 4 am. For this, the Vox Valvetronix SE and a good pair of wireless headphones are invaluable.

Now I can actually answer your question, Howard.

I'm very happy with it. For recreating sounds and for finding my own interpretations of material, it is the best $500.00 I've spent, offering virtually limitless flexibility and endless options.

Now, mind you, the processors are all digital, which puts some folks off, but imagine a footboard that replaces a whole warehouse filled with vintage and modern amps, cabinets, and stomp boxes, and you've got it.

Daytime I can plug away with the ART 825. Happy with that one, too.

I know you're all Janglebox fans. I had planned to purchase one from Steve, too. Still might AAMOF. However, I couldn't resist the Pro VLA--also by ART--that came up on eBay a few weeks back for less than a couple of hundred bucks. This is a tube/digital rackmountable outboard stereo compressor/limiter. You might wish to check out the reviews on one of the review sites. It uses twin 12AX7s and provides an adjustable gain boost to replace "lost" signal due to processing.

My evaluation of this piece: Snazzy. It is a whole lot of bang for the buck (I understand it's about $275.00 new and still a stock item after nearly a decade!) and gives you more flexibility than the Janglebox, along with stereo or twin mono capability (separate compressors for Ric-O-Sound, for example, should that sort of thing rattle your cage) and the ability to actually see your settings, thanks to both VU meters and LED array. Disadvantage is that it's not a stompbox, although it's not heavy.

Now all I have to do is learn how to play the guitar.

[ozover50]

I'd like to see your full lineup, Paul. 'Gizmo-rama'!!

The SE goes for around $850 - $900 here and it's on my list!!

[jingle_jangle]

Howard, the non-SE is just as good, minus a few features, and a coulpe hundred cheaper. You might weant to have a gander at it, too. I wanted the twin programmable pedals, hence the SE.

[qmoder]

My perfect No Where Man tone (for me) is my 66 Strat, Treble pickup on, treble full up on Deluxe Reverb, almost no bass. Yes George was the techie of the group. But he moved on from the single coil Gretsch sound. He even later commented that his tone in that era was terrible. But many Beatles fans find it golden.

I have a Les Paul that I got brand new in 79. It has some very strong humbuckers. But I hardly ever use the thing. My Strats and Ric with highgains get the usage now. Are'nt the new Filertrons designed and or made for Fender by Tv Jones?

[jingle_jangle]

But of course. Hopefully your Strat is Sonic Blue for the most authentic tone.

My observation above is merely to boost (pun intended) the fortunes of the much-maligned Hi Lo Trons. I can get the sound with any single-coil Fender set on treble. It's not a toughie.

It is my understanding that TV Jones makes some, but not all, of Gretsch's Filtertrons. If you read my post a few posts up, I also make reference to what George had to say about his early recordings. Tecchie is a relative term in this context; he dissed his Gretsch sound (unique) and went on to play Strats and an Epi Casino? (Both very, very common-sounding instruments.) I think he also tamed his worship of Chet Atkins and replaced it with borderline Hinduism. Hard to reconcile Nashville with Rishikesh. And George seems to have been the most philosophically narrow and judgemental of the Four. He seems to have always replaced one conviction with another, instead of exploring the option of allowing the previous to coexist with the new.

[qmoder]

Your right Paul he was deep in Indian music and mystics for a time along with the sitar. Then suddenly a big huge return of interest in his guitar playing. Nice that he came back too he really put out some material later using his first love.
I had always thought it was a Gretsch in his later recordings. Then I found out his slide playing was done on Rocky and he used lots of Strats live and in his videos.
I did'nt know that many people used Casino's though. I knew that Clapton and quite a few rock players have used the 335 at one time or another in their careers. George was seen with a few hollow body Gibsons now and then as well as the SG and Les Paul for a time. But they did'nt seem to stick to him as long as his Gretsch's and his Strats did. He said once too that the Duo Jet was his sentimental favorite of all of his Gretsch guitars and its seen in some of the last photos of him with his large guitar collection. But no big bodied Gretsch. The Ric twelve was still there though.
Well my Strat is close but only half a cigar to sonic blue. Its ocean torquioise. A buddy of mine has a Ric bass in torquiose. Its quite a looker but he wants a surf green one. Can we never be satified LOL.. I know I can't seem to be. At least not yet.

[jingle_jangle]

Well, Dan, I can understand George's attachment to the Duo Jet. It was his first genuine playable guitar, it was American (that counted for a lot in the UK in those days, after the embargo was lifted!) and it had a unique sound.

My own take on the subject of George's Gretsches is this: He bought the DJ from a newspaper ad placed by an American serviceman. This seems to have been a matter of "it was theonly one available at the time, and boy, was I lucky to get it!"

Later, when the bucks started flooding in, he went for emulation and top of the line. (Well, close...I couldn't imagine George with a White Falcon! Actually, it's tough to imagine anyone with one, but that's my prejudice...) So he bought the Country Gent, And then he bought another. These were rich man's guitars in those days in the UK. It was indulgence and hero-worship, I think. As he developed his own sound, he moved on to other guitars.

Funny to think that he went from a very distinctive Gretsch model that he made famous, to a generic Fender model in a bland color to boot.

I've always seen the Country Gent as a gorgeous but very select model. (Peculiar, even.) If George hadn't played one, do you think that Gretsch would be selling tons of them in four different versions today, forty years later? It's huge and very thin and only comfortable to play standing up. The other zillion Tennesseans, 6118s, 6119s, 6120s, etc., are a bit smaller (1" on the lower bout) and thicker, and this makes a big difference in playing comfort and sound.

Then you get down to the 6121s, 6128s and 6129s, which are commonly referred to as "Les Paul-sized". These for my bucks are the hottest-sounding Gretsches out there and a gas to play, too. They have an entirely different personality from the bigger hollows and semis. And the size and looks are just-right traditional '50s.

[qmoder]

I agree I dout the Gent would have sold so many copies if George and of course Chet had'nt used one. They are very beautiful guitars and sound pretty good too.
I played one once and liked it pretty well. The high price and no upper fret access were among the reasons that I passed on it. It had the illusion of upper fret access because you see this double cutaway and think man this is a lead guitar. Then there is this huge neck joint right at the eighteenth fret. I have often wondered why they did'nt taper that the way Ric does. My 360 has excellent upper fret access. It has what the Gent promised in looks but failed to deliver in actual preformance.
George may have wanted the bigger Gretsch's because of his Chet infulence. They blended pretty well with John's Ric too in appearance and sound. Since Brian was so into the Beatles appearance at that stage he probably pushed them too for George.
Yup George got his first Duo Jet from the sailor man and probably rushed to get it and did think himself lucky to have gotten one in merry old England at that time. He had written a letter when he was in Germany and said that he wanted a new guitar proabaly a Gretsch.
He borrowed that Firebird Duo Jet for a long time as well using it a lot. He probably would have bought it if it had been for sale.
Stills is about the only one that I can think of that used a White Falcon. CSNY and the Byrds helped Gretsch sales in the sixties too. But their use of them does'nt seem to get as much attention anymore as the Beatles still generate now about them.

[jingle_jangle]

As I said, Dan, George wanted to indulge himself (finally--gobs of money!) and emulate his biggest influence to date--Chet Atkins. If he was into Gene Vincent, he would have stuck with the Duo Jet.

I agree with you on the fret access issue. Remember that Chet's style didn't go too far up the neck for the most part. This was a C/W guitar. The access isn't great, but the darned thing is only a couple of inches thick, so not that bad either.

I don't believe Brian had any influence on the choice of guitars. Colors, yes, and suits, yes, and George was all for that. I don't really think that the Gretsch was the best mate for John's Rick. The Duo Jet was a better match. Look at the pictures. I wondered when I first saw the Gent (on Sullivan), "What's he doing playing that tubby, old man's guitar?" (My uncle was a pro musician and played one at the time. He was 39 then.)

[qmoder]

Thats just what I was thinking about the color. That Gent was so dark that it looked black. Thats why I thought Brian would have approved of it a great dealas it went well with the dark suits. The Duo Jet or Firebird Duo Jet would have looked better in my opinion same as you though. The sound would have been just as good if not better too.
I did'nt know that George was into the Beatles image either. I know that Paul was. John wanted the tough biker image with lots of leather but agreed to the suits when Brian told him it would be the difference in a lot of money or no money. I don't know how Ringo felt.
Paul remained a snappy dresser as well as Ringo in the latter Beatle years after Brian had passed on. But John and George quickly became jeans and tee shirts guys.
I am thinking of the Elliot Easton Gretsch Duo Jet. It looks very much like a Firebird Duo Jet but with some modern twists that are not really visible. I think in black it would probably fit visually with a Beatles type band not really a tribute as in dress and so forth. But one that did a lot of Beatle songs. Besides I have a black twelve string, six string Strat, and bass LOL.. Babies In Black

[kog]

I just remember watching "Sullivan" and immediately glomming onto the guitars. I was 11 and the only guitar I had before then was one of those plastic Mickey Mouse guitars with the big "mouse ears" for cutaways. (Maybe I subconsiously saw the "Mickey Mouse" guitar in the Gent...which would indicate I'm seriously screwed up.)

Watching Sullivan, I remembered for years how those guitars all gleamed and shined. I also remember how hard it was for me to make out the shape of Lennon's 325....against his dark suit you could barely see the cutaways. And since I didn't know squat about guitars I didn't really know what to look for.

The only other guitar that affected me so much was George's Ric 360-12, from "Hard Day's Night".

Whatever Harrison's reasons for liking the Gent, he had two of them....one got destroyed when it fell off their van on the way to a show, and the other one he gave away. It was disappointing to me when I read that he got tired of his Gretsch sound...but he was always looking for new sounds, trying new things. So it's only natural I guess.

Tho, Paul, I loved your comment: "Funny to think that he went from a very distinctive Gretsch model that he made famous, to a generic Fender model in a bland color to boot."