Cool 1973 4001

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 12:52 pm

Brad,
I'm in Taiwan where RICs are rare as hens' teeth.
Something like that can go over $USD 2500 here, ridiculously, if you can even find one.
Anyway, I wouldn't shell out $1295 for that.
I'd rather spend that amount of money on a 4004 CII 8-string if such a thing comes to being some day. (Mr. Hall said he might consider making them. Just "might".)
Now I'm looking forward to find and score a pre-1973 4001 with checkered binding and toaster neck pickup(preferably 21-frets for icing on the cake, like Sergio's) . Pretty impossible I know, but hopefully it could happen to me.

banta · Post by **banta** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 1:35 pm

Oh I see, Paul.

Well, hopefully you'll find a deal like that. And actually, the old 4003S/8 is a nice bass, I just am not fond of the application of the 4-string bridge they put on them.

Here I am playing my old 4003S/8.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 1:46 pm

Exactly, Brad.
The 4003S/8's 4-saddle bridge is what keeps me from wanting one.
I hope the "Might-be-possible" 4004CII/8 would be equipped with 8 instead of 4 saddles.

By the way, very nice collection of yours, along with the Ampeg SVT behind you.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 1:48 pm

Brad, I feel the same way you do about the 4-string bridge being used on the eight string basses.
Paul, I see you keep dreaming about a 21-fret 4001! Well, they're rare but they're out there! One of them is bound to come down your way someday. Keep your eyes peeled!

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 1:53 pm

Sergio,
Thanks for your blessing.

Now I gotta go to bed. The next mixing session is a few hours away.

Goodnight to all.

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:01 pm

So what's the big deal about the 4000 series bridge being used on the 4003/8's? So what if they use the same saddle for each pair of strings. It seems that once you've gotten the intonation set for the low string that the high string should be pretty close if not right on. I've heard it said that the higher octive string should be a little off anyway to get a more "chorousy"(is that a word?)effect. It seems that the larger concern should be the basic design of the 4000 series bridge with respect to the intonation screws being on the wrong side and the way it tends to lean back as you play it. Both of these problems can be fixed as I have done it to two. Now if one doesn't like the way it sounds or plays then that's another thing but let's lay off of the 4003/8's bridge as a deciding factor in owning or not owning one.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:59 am

Dane,
I agree with you that the 4003/8's bridge should not be a deciding factor in owning or not owning one. At least it sould not be the sole factor.

I'd like to believe that it's all a matter of personal preference: Some RIC 12-string guitar owners are totally happy with the stock 6-saddle bridge while some prefer to replace it with the 12-saddle type because it really upsets their ears when one of the two in a pair of strings(especially the E,A,D pairs) is not in tune with its counterpart.

From an engineer's point of view, the "chorus" sound charaters come from 2 strings playing the same note but with a slight difference in pitch. 2 strings of the same gauge, even when they're both dead correct in intonation, still give slightly different pitches when fretted together and played at the same time due to the difference in mechanical/physical pressures from one finger, combined with the difference of impact from one pickstroke or fingerpluck, thus the "chorus" effect.

Things are a little different when dealing with octave strings because they don't yield the same note but one fundamental and the other whose frequecy is doubled. The A notes on an 8-string bass' 3rd open strings are supposed to be 440hz and 880hz at the same time. Weird and odd harmonics take place when the intonation of the octave string is too far off (eg. 440hz+870hz or 440hz+890hz). The sound can be quite offensive to some folks' ears.

With an 8-saddle bridge and all strings peoperly intonated, notes still give that nice sweet chorus effect, due to the physical variations in string gauges and "human factors", IMHO.

I don't own a RIC 4003s/8, so I don't know how far off, intonation wise, the thin octave strings get when the thick fundamental strings are properly intonated. I suppose most of them are flat when fretted at the 12th fret due to the fact that thinner strings need shorter distance between the nut and the saddle to intonate correctly.

Wouldn't it be nice that you could control the amount of "offness" to your liking (again, a matter of personal preference), especially with a bass that costs over $1200?

Just my very humble opinion, Dane. And I respect and cherish your inputs

Owners of 8-string RIC basses are welcome to please chime in.

Sorry for such a long and boring post, brothers and sisters.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:23 am

A four-way bridge on an 8-string instrument is fundamentally WRONG. Although anyone handy and patient enough can correct this shortcoming by re-shaping (!) the four saddles, it's plain stupid to spend big bucks on an 8-string instrument fitted with an unsuitable bridge, which I can only describe as an attempt by the manufacturer to keep production costs low!

banta · Post by **banta** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:21 am

In my experience, there is not a huge problem with the intonation of the octave pairs on the 4003S/8, but there is enough of one to alter the decision to buy one. That is ultimately why I switched from the 4003S/8 to a Zon Legacy 8. I recorded a song on the 4003S/8 that had a part at the end with chords in the upper register in which I added chorus to make the imperfect intonation less noticeable.

surfrat · Post by **surfrat** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:34 pm

I have to agree with Sergio that 4-saddle bridges are a bad idea on an 8-string. I've also had to use the chorus trick with my Rick 8 to mask the slight intonation problems. Other companies are using 8-saddle bridges, why can't Rick? Perhaps in the 1960's a 4-saddle bridge was fine, but with todays digital technology it's just too darned easy to hear the out of tune notes!

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 1:38 pm

It would be super if RIC could come up with an 8-saddled bridge in the original 4001/4003 style, with better quality intonation screws(preferably the easier to turn hex type). Professional and handsome! I ain't no luthier nor tooling engineer, but would it be difficult to come up with such a thing?

I bet lots of 4003S/8 owners will be happy if that can happen.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 1:10 am

Hey, let us not digress. Here's another beauty:

http://www.bunnybass.com/bass/ric4001kh.shtml

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 6:57 am

Absolutely a beautiful 4001 V63, Sergio.

That's one of the best wood grains on a Mapleglo 400x that I've ever seen.It was sold for $2069 with original silver case. Wonder who has it now?

The Bunnybass site (one of the best bass site, IMHO) even had a 8"X10" high quality print of that image for auction on ebay a month or two ago.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:45 pm

Rickenbacker basses are like very beautiful women - picture perfect. Ain't that right, guys?

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 1:03 pm

Just to prove my point:

http://www.the-music-connection.com/pics/r337bd.jpg

http://www.the-music-connection.com/pics/r307bd.jpg