The Beatles vs The Monkees

string_along · Post by **string_along** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:34 am

(Sorry, I thought it would show up better than this!) --- Skip

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:37 pm

I don't think the Monkees are worthy much of derision. As Glen stated, they were hired to act.

Many bands of the day didn't play on their own records, and the situation today has only deteriorated (computers will fix bad vocals, bad drum beats, purt near anything).

They served a purpose, lived to tell and even helped Neil Diamond have a career. OK so the Neil Diamond thing cannot be excused.

And Mike Nesmith has one cool website, "invented" MTV, made the wonderful Elephant Parts, and still puts out good music.

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:08 pm

>>the Monkees were not hired to be a band. They were hired as actors to portray a band.

point well taken... but having grown up with the TV show, it was disillusioning when I found out the truth.

>>>>and all four of them could sing. These days you're lucky if you get a band with one guy that can sing.

This is true. Mickey had the best voice of the 4.

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:21 pm

string_along · Post by **string_along** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:22 pm

Growing up in the 60's, I watched their program at night and played their records on the record player.
I didn't get into all that stuff about them not playing on their records, etc.
I enjoyed some of the songs I heard and I liked the weekly television program. That was good enough for me! (No more, no less!!)

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:23 pm

>>> Especially when you consider how people like Paula Abdul followed, and didn't sing on their own records (and didn't have to act, either.)

I dont know anything about Paula Abdul ... whats the scoop here... she did a Milli Vanilli* ??

* probably not how it's spelled, but then who cares?

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:42 pm

Paula's career is even stranger than Milli Vanilli's...as far as I understand it, she actually did 'sing' into a microphone for the purpose of putting out records....but her vocals had to be computerized and 'fixed' due to her tin ear and overall lack of ability...one of the first examples of this (if not the first); her name is now synonymous in studioland with the application of this kind of technology. It's more common nowadays than any of us might care to think.

I think it's hilarious that someone with as dubious a resume as Paula's could be getting big prime time money to judge other people's singing. Only in America...

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:28 pm

Ha..... I was thinking the same thing. Paula as a a judge is joke. So what do they call it in studioland .... you would "Abdul" something?

simer4001 · Post by **simer4001** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:57 pm

Getting back to groups not playing on albums, i don't recall too many of the Beach Boys playing on Pet Sounds or during the Smile Sessions. No one seemed to have a problem with that.

craviola990 · Post by **craviola990** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:06 pm

I think that all of Mike Nesmith's originals were FAR better than most of the crud that was written for them: "Papa Gene's Blues", "You just may be the one", "Sunny Girlfriend", "Listen to the band", "Mary, Mary", "The Girl That I Knew Somewhere", and the Kirshner rejected (But given to the Stone Poneys) "Different Drum", etc. Ironically, Nesmith is my all time favourite vocalist. Peter Thorkleson, who was cast as idiot Peter Tork on the TV show, was and is a very talented multi-instrumentalist, and holds the distinction of being the only Monkee to play SOMETHING on every single album. He played guitar on "Papa Gene Blues", from the first album. Right in the middle of their success, Mike Nesmith's consience caught up with him, and he told Newsweek magazine that they were a complete joke, and the were not playing on the albums, etc. A pretty gutsy thing to do. Don Kirshner of course, was livid. This was a major factor in him creating "The Archies"; "Cartoon characters can't talk back"! One of the "Actual" Archies would be Rick Derringer, who played on "Sugar Sugar". Around the time of the Newsweek article Peter Tork, who was one of the MC's at The Monterey Pop Festival, had the big party during one of the after hours. He sent Jimi Hendrix & Stephen Stills to the store for some beer, and they wrecked his red GTO Monkeemobile. Talk about symbolic of "Changing of the guard"!! Thanks! Christian

craviola990 · Post by **craviola990** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:18 pm

Yeah, Pet Sounds was largely "The Wrecking Crew"; Hal Blaine, Glen Campbell, Carol Kaye, those wonderful musicians. Maybe Joe Osborne & Larry Knechtal, Leon Russell; I'm not sure. Ironically, Dennis Wilson enjoyed a really great writing spree in the late '60's-early '70's: "Forever", "Little Bird", etc. Of course, the stuff all bombed because nothing could be more square in 1970 than The Beach Boys!! Their tour with Chicago in I think '71 was very critically acclaimed however, and the two bands got quite tight. So much so, that Dennis Wilson, Al Jardine, & Carl Wilson sing the back-ups on "Wishing you were here". Carl, noted for his incredible vocal ability was hauled in alot; he sang backup on Elton John's "Don't let the sun go down on me", and was also brought in to arrange and sing harmonies on David Lee Roth's version of "California Girls" Anybody here by any chance fans of the song "Breakaway"? I think it's about the best Beach Boys tune. Thanks! Christian

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:24 pm

>>i don't recall too many of the Beach Boys playing on Pet Sounds or during the Smile Sessions.

uh-oh... I think I'm headed for another fall.

>>Pet Sounds was largely "The Wrecking Crew"; Hal Blaine, Glen Campbell, Carol Kaye, those wonderful musicians.

DANG! I HATE when that happens!

simer4001 · Post by **simer4001** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:43 am

Back to the merging of the two songs. It reminded me of a Soprano's episode when they kept mixing the Peter Gunn theme song with Every Breath You Take. Unlike the Beatles/Monkees song, that one drove me nuts!

chingnchime · Post by **chingnchime** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:46 am

I love BREAKAWAY, written by Brian and his father, Murry, under the pseudonym REGGIE DUNBAR (why, I don't know).
While it's true the BBs didn't play on the PET SOUNDS stuff and some other early hits, that was common in those days.
Paul Revere and the Raiders didn't play on their stuff, and they had some very good singles in the '66-'67 years. The great harmony vocals on things like GOOD THING and HIM OR ME were all sung by producer Terry Melcher himself. Back to the BBs-their case is a little different than the Monkees. They were doing world tours while Brian stayed home and put the music together w/ the wrecking crew, then the band would come in and do vocals. Even though the Monkees toured, i don't think it was as extensive as the BBs.

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:41 am

My wife, Merisa Bissinger, and our trombonist (in PW3), Rick Benjamin, have been the horn section on several albums over the last ten years, including the critically acclaimed Neutral Milk Hotel releases "In The Airplane Over The Sea" and "On Avery Island"...but their highest profile work has been for Robert Schneider's band "The Apples In Stereo". Schneider has always referred to them in conversation and magazine interviews as "The Elephant Six Wrecking Crew", Elephant Six being his publishing collective which includes several Athens, Ga. bands (Olivia Tremor Control, etc.). I've always known that Schneider was a big fan of Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys (we jokingly referred to his Denver recording studio as 'Pet Smells', owing to the contributions of his feline entourage), but I wasn't aware that he was referring to an earlier "Wrecking Crew"...thanks for updating me, Christian...