Non-Tiltback headstock of my Oct."72 4001 Fretless

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Thu May 22, 2003 1:23 pm

I've never seen a '72 4001 that Didn't have a headstock with a shallow back angling.And I saw first hand a Lot of them during my short time in Rick's woodshop.I got to see that operation in progress, though I will not hazard a guess as to why it was done that way at that time. If not for the use of thicker fingerboards, this would be a real problem,and even so, to owners of These basses, I strongly recommend when restringing , that you put as many wraps around the string post, so the string coming up to the nut has as much angle as you can give it.Otherwise you could potentially have some string rattle in the nut slots due to slacknees of string tension.YMMV..

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu May 22, 2003 1:28 pm

I agree Don about the angle coming up to the nut. I have found the the low E string, at least on Pyramid Flats, has far more sustain when it is strung this way.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Fri May 23, 2003 7:15 am

My 1972 4001 has the same headstock profile as Paul's fretless, and mine was made a month earlier(LK 1447).

Adding more to Don's post above: My bass has this problem of insufficiant downforce across the nut compounded even more due to the original Grovers being replaced with larger-shaft Schallers. I actually have a problem with the A and E strings popping out of the nut on occasion...Any suggestions on how to remedy this???

robj · Post by **robj** » Fri May 23, 2003 8:10 am

If the problem is that the length of the tuning machine shafts are too long you may be able to devise and install spacers between the tuning machine body and back of the headstock to shorten them. Just a thought.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Fri May 23, 2003 8:49 am

Robj, I'm afraid the tuners aren't constructed in a manner that would allow me to do that; they are held fast to the headstock by means of a large nut that fastens from the front of the headstock...the shafts are actually threaded...

The only thing I have thought of that will work is dowel the headstock and re-drill for the Grovers, if I can find a good set...

robj · Post by **robj** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:21 am

Dowel and redrill for Grovers could well be your best choice. I was thinking maybe there are other tuners that might work better on your bass, but that might just be another flavor of problem to deal with.

I have a '72 (sept. I believe) 4001 and never really paid much attention to the headstock angle. I will have to look at that.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:34 am

Hi Paul,
I checked my 79 (only one I have in Perú) and at first glance it looked flat, then I held it against a straight surface and there is a little tilt backwards on my 79 4001, but when I held it up without the straight surface it looked flat, similiar to yours. I have six and will be flying home in a few weeks, you can bet I will be comparing them.
By the way how does the toaster sound with the 98 Fireglo? I just bought one from Ebay and haven't even seen it yet (98 Fireglo 4003).
And John you can still find Grovers if you look, they are expensive though, I paid $300.00 last year for a set.

dano · Post by **dano** » Fri May 23, 2003 11:11 am

Hello Bob,
I put a toaster in my '79. Love it! It is one hot pickup. This bass almost sounds as good as my v63. Quick question for everyone. Has anyone tried dual toasters (neck and bridge position)?

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri May 23, 2003 12:17 pm

Hi Dan, Thanks, and doesn't the Lemmy bass have two toasters in it?

robj · Post by **robj** » Fri May 23, 2003 12:58 pm

The Lemmy (4004LK) is basically a 4004C with three humbuckers and fancy carving from what I remember. It may have other differences that I don't recall.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Fri May 23, 2003 6:26 pm

Thank you all for your valuable inputs.

Bob,
You'll love your '98 4003 FG with a toaster (get a new 7.4k Scatterwound Reissue Toaster whose polepieces protrude the bottom for 13/64" thus are louder) for both looks and sounds. Check out the " Replaced my 4003's neck high gain with a toaster... " thread in the "Rickenbacker Basses" topic. Please do compare all of them when you get home. I'd like to know all these little nuances in different eras.

David,
You might be right about my head tilting back (for 2 months) then, haha!

Sergio,
I think I'll take the strings and tuners off Akiko tonight and do an even closer inspection with straight edges of different lengths. You and Don could be very right.

John,
Good luck finding a proper tuner for your '72.

Has RIC received 60 orders for the 4004LK yet? Mr. Hall once stated at alt.gtr.rickenback that the carving process has been comprised of both machine/human works since the carving artist left. So can I still place order for one? How much should I expect to pay?
I don't mind waiting for 1 or 2 years...

Mr. Hall, would you please shed some light on the bass "headstock" history and my "4004LK" questions?

Guys, keep them headstock angle survey coming. Take a look at your babies. This could be interesting for historical aspects.

By the way, this is the tilt-back headstock of my '86 4003 Shadow:

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Sat May 24, 2003 1:10 am

that headstock is just like my 91 4003

robj · Post by **robj** » Tue May 27, 2003 9:35 am

I thought the 4004LK model was sold out some time ago. Here's a link to the Lemmy bass.

http://www.rickenbacker.com/us/4004lk.htm

It's a 4004C-I with 3 humbuckers, rosewood fretboard, checkered binding and the fancy carving.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Thu May 29, 2003 11:23 am

Thanks for the headsup, Robert.
I certainly hope I can get a 4004LK in very good condition someday.
That bass is an objet d'art, hands down.

As for the headstock angle:
I finally took off the G and D strings, tuners and bushings and did a closer inspection with a 24" straight edge whose one end was layed flush on the headstock while the other end pointed to the body and found the straight edge not totally covering the fingerboard binding from the 10th fret.
It'd be safe to say the "straight looking" headstock of my '72 4001 FL has at least 1-3 degrees of tiltback.

Sergio and Don were totally correct!

Here's the identical headstock of a '74 4001 FG on ebay currently:

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:13 am

Paul: When you had your Fretless '72 apart, did you take any pics of the backside of the pickguard with wiring and pots visible? If so, can you post a pic for me? Thanks.