Real Love vs. Free as a Bird

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:59 pm

That was his Wal, by the way, on those tracks, IIRC. He said on FAAB he went down on the B string to get ONE note.

simer4001 · Post by **simer4001** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:24 pm

I think Jeff and the Beatles did a great job with what they had to work with. Personally I've always been a Jeff Lynne fan. Sure, ELO was over produced, but what similar act of the 70's wasn't? I think comparing him to Phil Spector is very unfair. He, at least, had the blessing of the surviving Beatles.

The other Lennon song they were knocking around was "Grow Old With Me". A version of that song was released on 1983's "Milk and Honey". It was a simple version of John on his piano recorded with a cassette recorder.

winston · Post by **winston** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:57 pm

Brian as far as I know, no one on this thread compared Jeff to Phil. I was just making the point that some producers produce a certain very identifiable sound. Phil's work stands out in that regard, since it is just a wall of sound that assails your ears.

Another prime example from my list above is Bob Rock. Bob's work with Motley Crue, Metallica, Bon Jovi et al is also very identifiable but for a different reason.

Jeff Lynne is able to introduce Beatle like arrangements, riffs, interludes and vocal dynamics to a piece if he wants to. He is a producer songwriter that most ELO aficionados could pinpoint in a heartbeat.

I would have given the world to hear the result of John Lennon and Jeff Lynne collaborating on writing, playing, arranging and recording an album together. It's too bad that never happened.

levykev · Post by **levykev** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:12 am

you figure he's one of the only producers that could have done it. i don't think George Harrison would've shown up if Paul picked a producer... and Ringo doesn't care who's doing it. being a fellow Wilbury, he and George obviously hit it off and worked well together, so Paul gave it a try and obviously liked him, because he used Jeff Lynne on "Flaming Pie"... which I love.

seems like it had to be perfect for George to participate. why not have his buddy do it?

just a theory.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:07 am

Lynne was indeed some sort of political compromise between Macca and Harrison as has been said, which does not always lead to the best option being chosen.

If I'd have been Harrison, back in the mid 80s, looking for someone to produce me, I'd have chosen Nick Lowe or any of a number of guys who're proven to know what they're doing when it comes to writing, identifying and/or producing good rock.

But George liked ELO. Like a lot of critics at the time, I can't listen to ELO. And don't get that aspect of George's taste. But in the end he was said to like the Black Crows, another band that I don't see as particularly good, tasteful or talented.

But that to me shows that George paid a lot more attention to gardening in his last 30 years than good rock 'n roll. So that's what the fabs ended up with.

jonpaul · Post by **jonpaul** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:06 am

Just from a general point of view, I have always thought Real Love was much easier to listen to and understand. I realize both Lennon parts were generated from some very poor cassette demo tapes, but to me FAAB does not have the overall vocal clarity & quality (from John) that Real Love has. It makes the song a bit tougher to listen to. However, I really like both songs music arrangements. JMO

levykev · Post by **levykev** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:14 am

unfortunately, it was all about political compromise in the Beatles at the time... and ever after.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:52 am

Real Love certainly is a tune with a title and subject matter that is pure Fabs.

Nothing against FAAB. I think they did a great job with it (save the guitar sounds which were dated even when they tracked it. Thanks, Jeff.)

I think they blew the intro to it. They could have had a few bars of first chord of the verse key, with a nice Harri lick over it, and then got to the vocals. And did a decent video!

rumbush · Post by **rumbush** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:01 am

The exemplary slide work in FAAB hasn't been mentioned here (unless I missed it) and to me that really makes the song. Both are good efforts imo but I prefer FAAB on the whole. Considering the quality of the source material I think they were successful, production values of Jeff Lynne notwithstanding, with both songs.

Glad they didn't do "Grow Old With Me." Yoko refinished the song for the Lennon Anthology, adding a glut of strings. It's pretty pitiful.

beefandbones · Post by **beefandbones** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:38 am

I think Jeff Lynne's production style certainly has it's place, but I think that place is generally on ELO records. I'm not sure what he does, but he completely robs the music of 'air' and excitement. Which is weird, because there are some ELO productions from the 70s that actually are kind of exciting, like Don't Bring Me Down and Evil Woman.

Actually, Nick Lowe would have been a great choice for Harrison, Petty, Orbison, and/or the Wilburys. Maybe even the Beatles. His first solo albums, the Rockpile record, and of course Elvis Costello's albums have the same raw and loose energy that characterizes early rock n roll - a sound all of those guys were going for at the time.

I think Real Love is a better song than Free As a Bird, but I think they released Free As A Bird as the first single because both Real Love and Grow Old Along With Me had already been previously released on John Lennon albums. Pretty stingy of Yoko if you ask me.

paulv63 · Post by **paulv63** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:13 am

They should have taken something from the Double Fantasy sessions and did complete overdubs.

wj350 · Post by **wj350** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:30 pm

Free As A Bird was Lennon...listen to any of his earlier stuff and it screams at you.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:06 am

I would have loved to hear a fully-fleshed out version of either song by Lennon. I think each is better than anything he put out post-Imagine.

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:58 am

Very interesting points of view here.

That we did not hear of these songs, prior to Lennon's passing may have been a fair indication of what he thought of them. As nice as it is to hear the Fab Four "together", I suspect he may never have released them.

While I may be way off base, I am wondering if there will ever be a release of Lennon with his sons, using modern technology.

apollo11 · Post by **apollo11** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:15 am

Good question, Peter. They've done it to success with Hank Williams, Nat King Cole, Ernest Tubb, etc. Maybe Yoko is holding out and has some more material for something along these lines.