Why did Geddy stop using his 4001?

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:25 am

I disagree (I think they are one of maybe 3 interesting prog metal bands in existence), but that's a whole different topic . . . I must say, that John Myung's bass tone has been sucking quite a bit in the past several years . . . they could use a good producer, like Mr. Brown, or maybe even a bass that has better tone . . . like a 6-string Rickenbacker . . . HINT HINT.

myfretless · Post by **myfretless** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:49 am

I remember an interview in the '80's where Geddy sounds like he's complaining about how hard it was to change the strings on a RIC, which never made sense to me. I don't have any problems changing the strings.

Perhaps cynically, I assumed that Ged might have changed because he found other guitar makers who would sponser him and give him free stuff in exchange for mentioning their products on the LP or tourbook liner notes. I thought that RIC took the moral highground and refused to do that like others do.

Even though Geddy is showing off his Steinberger on Grace Under Pressure, I believe a great part of the album actually was the 4001.

Starting with Power Windows and the influence of Peter Collins however, Ged's bass sound got bouncier and wimpier IMO, due to the use of the Wal. The Wal looked cool but I don't like the sound up through Roll the Bones. However, I think there are a couple songs on Presto that have a good sound (maybe, as John states, Geddy used the 4001 on those songs).

However, from Counterparts to present, it appears that Geddy is exclusively using his Jazz. It sounds like my Jazz, and it's pretty generic to my ears. It doesn't grab me or excite me like the 4003/1 does/did. My guess is the fact that he has his own signature line with Fender will prevent him contractually from acknowledging or publically using anything but his signature bass.

If true, it's a corporate shame. I hope it's not true, but that's my guess.

geddeeee · Post by **geddeeee** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:18 pm

That's exactly it! The Jazz sound is pretty generic, and that is what has happened to Rush's sound IMHO.
There is nothing wrong with the actual songs, but the exciting edge to Rush's music has vanished. Alex's guitar sounds muffled and yawn inducing, Ged's bass is a F**der and Neil's drums have too much reverb on them.... I suppose they are trying to appeal to a larger audience, but where's the bite and bark that characterized the signature Rush sound?
I'm still a Rush fan, as I'm always looking forward to what's next, but strap on that Rick, dump the reverb unit and don't use a PRS guitar....

scottpro1969 · Post by **scottpro1969** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:50 pm

Brad, I'd be reaaaally surprised if Geddy agreed to any contract with Fender to use them exclusively. He doesn't even use his signature bass. He has stated himself that the sig bass is not an exact replica of his original. The original is the one he uses live, not a $600 Japanese signature. Believe me, I'd love to see the 4001, or a new 4003 back on stage or in the studio. Seems he has loves the jazz though. Unforutunate for us.

scottpro1969 · Post by **scottpro1969** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:54 pm

For my money, you can't get any better tone than he had during the Moving Pictures tour, Exit...Stage Left CD, and Signals....which I believe on which he also used a 4002. Pure Rick tone.

geddeeee · Post by **geddeeee** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:19 pm

Definitely Scott! For me ESL is the peak for Geddy's bass tone. Sweet, warm and clank-a-liscious!

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:28 am

I'd bet my bank account that he used the Ric on Red Barchetta.

geddeeee · Post by **geddeeee** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:19 pm

On Moving Pictures? Definitely, and The Camera Eye. Listen to the solo section... Oooh baby!!!

myfretless · Post by **myfretless** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:10 pm

That whole period from A Farewell to Kings to Moving Pictures is simply amazing.

I'm shocked that some of Moving Pictures is a Jazz. Must have been an amazing old Jazz because my Jazz doesn't sound like that. My 4003 does.

Here's the scientific postulate: If that's Geddy's Jazz on Tom Sawyer, YYZ and Limelight, why doesn't it sound the same on the new stuff?

Was Terry Brown THAT important?

geddeeee · Post by **geddeeee** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:53 pm

Short answer, YES!!!
But I also think that what Geddy wants as his sound now is another big factor... Personally I think his tone now is bland and sounds like a hundred other bassists. It's only his style of playing which is still recognizable....
Terry Brown was THE man!!!

westtexasrickenbacker · Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:23 am

I've oftentimes wondered the same question in regards to the sound. Geddy is on interviews saying he used the Jazz on songs that sure sound like the 4001.

Producers and engineers are great though, in that they have tremendous manipulation of tone.... even with the new digital stuff.

You gotta believe the info coming from the horse's mouth, yet lots of stuff that is the Jazz really sounds like Rickenbacker to our ears. I think it's a conspiracy

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:50 am

I think a lot of it in the fingers of the guy playing the bass. Players like that could pick up MY bass and sound like themselves.
That being said, Geddy's Jazz is a '72, and it's nice.

I think Terry Brown was HUGE in making Rush sound like they did. Once they started with other producers (Peter *&^#%#&@# Henderson), they started tinkering just to be different.

westtexasrickenbacker · Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:04 am

How has RUSH music sold since, say, 1986?

Curious to know. They came out with 'Power Windows'... was that the name of the CD? Anyway, I didn't like it. I thought the songs were weak and the bass sound was not like before. That's been commented on above.

Have they been as commercially successful, post '86 to pre-'86?

Composers have "hot" periods and it tends to be in their youth. I guess that's not always the case, though.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:31 am

Rush, as popular as they are, are not what I would call mainstream...they never have been. Their record sales have never been reflective of where they stand with their fans. Critics be damned. Having said that, I don't think they've had any product that has done what 'Moving Pictures' has done. To me, that was a very 'in the pocket' record.

Their music changes 'cause they do, it's only natural. Despite not selling a gazillion records, they are very well-known and respected.

They have a VERY loyal following.

westtexasrickenbacker · Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:01 am

Hey John,

Yes, I'd agree with you about their current following being very loyal. Plus, even those who don't particularly like their music recognize the outstanding playing abilities of Geddy Lee and the others.

And you're also right about never being chart-toppers. I tell you though, I do think they lost a certain percentage of their fan base starting in 1985 with 'Power Windows'. I was a fan of RUSH, but other friends of mine were huge fans and starting with that CD, they were off the bandwagon and never really went back.
'Power Windows' was when I stopped listening.