Vintage VS Modern

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:37 am

Philco was referring to his 4004L. There's no difference in the measured resistance, I measured them at about 14.7K each (measured in circuit). But the actual output of the neck pickup will be greater because of greater string movement, as Paul said. This is always true of any two pickup arrangement but more noticeable when a pickup is as far forward as on the original style 4004, butted against the end of the neck.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:03 am

Dan,
Congrats! That is a beautiful bass! I've always felt that instruments are very personal, like an extension of the owner, and even though it isn't what I would play, I am glad yours turned out so well and that you love it!

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:11 am

Paul: Here are a couple of closeup photos of the RIC humbucking pickup. Why do I feel it is time for a cup of coffee?

dano · Post by **dano** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:26 am

Peter, yes it has the white TRC with raised black letters (made in the usa). Philip, thanks for the info. I know alot of members here, myself included, were wondering how 4004 owners balanced the two pickups. Dane, you must have been reading my mind! Originally I had planned on a larger pickguard but then the bridge pickup wouldn't be adjustable. Since the neck has alot more bite than the bridge I can balance the two pickups better this way as opposed to twiddling with the knobs as Philip mentioned earlier in this post. I like the idea of your fretless conversion, but it's not something I would want to attempt myself and there are no "worthy" luthiers in this area I would trust with any of my basses! I always remove the treble handrest (except on my V63), just personal preference as I usually play with my fingers and the handrest gets in the way. Paul, I believe Peter answered most of your questions but let me know if there is anything else I may have missed. Thanks Steve, I am also glad it turned out well! I had my doubts at the beginning of this project but once I got started it was alot easier than I expected.

dano · Post by **dano** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:32 am

I love the coffee-bean background! Also, someone asked if the pickups are the same (neck and bridge). They are, but they use different part numbers for some reason.

squirebass · Post by **squirebass** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:47 am

Rickenbacker Humbuckers -- that's the richest kind!!!!

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:51 am

As a matter of fact, I'm just drinking coffee now.
Thanks for the coffee beans filled pictures and infos, Dan.

There's a question I'd like to repeat:
Did you fit the HB on the treble PU baseplate with 2 screws?

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:56 am

Dan: I think they may have different part numbers because of a longer wire on the neck pickup at some point. Perhaps Kenny will fill us in.

dano · Post by **dano** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:57 am

Yes, I bolted the HB-1 to the plastic baseplate, it's basically the same bridge setup as a 4001/4003. It's time for some coffee!

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:15 am

Cheers with the coffee. (Sip....)

dano · Post by **dano** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:19 am

Coffee is now ready. CHEERS!

jps · Post by **jps** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:37 pm

Does the positions of the wires coming out of the pickup indicate their relationship with the coils themselves? Has anyone tried these in single coil mode? If so how do they sound?

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:44 pm

Phil, when you get used to the two volumes and tones you don't really want just one, especially the volume controls (at least I don't). I almost always back off the bass pickup to get mid bite that doesn't seem to be there when both are on full. And although I also almost always keep the tones in the same place I like the versatility of the two tones also, I don't find that arrangement cumbersome at all (anymore, it did take a while to get used to coming from a P bass ). I can walk away from my amp and tweak the bass-mid balance which is crucial to me, because every room is different, and most importantly for me, it is a gradual change not an abrupt one like when I move the PU selector switch.
I learned how to play fretless on an old 68 Fender P bass with nothing on the fretboard and dots on the side of the neck only on the 3rd. 5th 7th, etc. positions. I can't play a lined one and I had a hard time at first with the Rics, when I went up high on the neck I would land a note off sometimes. I used to put whiteout on the side dots so it was like my old Fender. I would actually like no markers at all, like an upright, maybe someday we'll be able to get custom Rics again.
And actually I need a coffee now. Actually coca té would be better about now. (one of the fringe benefits of living in Perú it's legal and tastes good and is a tea not what you are thinking haha, although I do think it is a better pick-me-up than coffee.

philco · Post by **philco** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:50 pm

Bob, I have a 650D with the 4003 type of tone control setup. It's what I call nice for the kind of guys that have amps with only a couple of knobs. They can change tone at the guitar instead of the amp. Eddie Van Halen uses only a single tone and volume setup on his signature EVH Wolfgang guitar (a close contender when I picked my 650D). He gets most of his tone change on his amp controls, and I prefer the same thing. I notice that my dad tweaks tone controls very little after he finds his preferred sound, and just uses picking style to change his sound.....which is the same way he plays acoustic guitar. Now my brother, he's a real twiddler if the knobs are there.

Also, for guys who always use the pickups singly, and never combined, there is no loss of versatility with the single volume and tone type of setup. Just less confusion as to WHICH tone or volume knob to grab.

But to each his own. I like both setups. My 650D would work well with vintage type amps with limited tone control.

I measured my 4004 pickups, and they measured 14.7K each. The output of the neck was 210mV rms, or about 300mV peak. I suspect it is as somebody else said, being that far up the neck allows for the string over the pickup to vibrate more. I'm not going to lower the neck pickup. I like the big fat sound. I don't think the 4004 was aimed at people that try to capture every bass sound out there. Those FatCat humbuckers just can't do a lot of bright tones. That's what my OLP MM2 Stingray copy is for. The 4004 is MP&B tone (meat, potatoes, and beer).

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:10 pm

Phil,
My SVT has great tone controls, I can get just about any sound I want with the tones, but it is nice to be able to walk away from your amp and adjust it some more, because when you walk away from your amp you loose a lot of the highs and the articulation, when I am twenty feet away from my amp I can hear it more like it sounds in the room, not just right in front of it, because almost anything sounds good three ft. in front of it. And I will also sometimes tweak it right in the middle of a song, and I am not a knob freak who is always adjusting my sound, that will drive everyone in the band up a wall. I would much rather change my sound unobrusively with my bass than walk back to my amp in the middle of a set, that pisses me off when people do that, it breaks up the mood the band sets. I may want a certain sound for a certain song, or maybe the band got louder as the night got longer, it's just nice to be able to set your amp the way you like it and then change your sound from your bass. One of my biggest bitches about P basses was the fact that all you could do from the bass was adjust the treble, and volume, you can't adjust the bottom with them, with a Ric it is very easy, you just adjust the mix of the pickups. I think if I ever get a 4004 the first thing I will do is put in another volume and wire it so each pickup has it's own volume control.
Eddy is a great guitar player, one of the best, and he has a signature sound, a hundred watt Marshall pushing probably 150 watts, haha. He probably just needs a volume control and a tone. But I'm in a club playing all sorts of different types of music, I need the versatility I get with the 4001/4003 Rics.