Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Paul, what cap? there has not been one for like 15 yrs!

The .0047 mfd cap that hasn't been in the treble pickup's circuit for more than 15 years.

I mean it would be nice if RIC could put back the .0047 cap and change the treble volume pot a p/p pot that allows you to switch in and out the cap in the treble PU signal path.

Very interesting discussion, but I think that the bass pickup on most (or all) Rics has little or no mid punch, I know that none of mine do, that is why I eliminate the cap, I get all my mid punch from the bridge pickup. With the cap in and with volumes both on full I still got a scooped sound (I think it's worse with the cap). With the cap in and a backed off bass vol. I get a thin trebly sound great for 70's progressive rock but what else?
I like Dave and Pauls theory about the overtones being out of phase and I think that could explain some of the mid cancellation, but then how do you explain no mids on a bass with a cap with both volumes on full? (the cap blocks mids from the treble pickup so no cancellation will occur, there will be no out of phase overtones) I think the majority of punch comes a little lower than 300 hz. I still think that the majority of the lack of mid punch is because the treble pickup is much softer than the bass pickup with both volumes on full. Again, try taking the pickguard off so you have only the treble pickup under the strings and put both volumes on full, and back off the bass volume, you'll be amazed, or at leats i was the first time I tried it. And it is the same with or without cap, the tone does not change, only the volume. (with the cap the trebly sound just gets softer, without cap, the full sound just gets softer) Theory is great but I like tinkering a lot better. The bass pickup is too far from the bridge for any real mid punch. Look at where the pickup is on a P bass, it's in the perfect place for both bass and mid punch, or even listen to a 4000, it has all kinds of mid punch. A 4000 is just a 4001 (they never had caps according to Mark the MD.) without the bass pickup. According to the Ric books they added the neck pickup for extended bass response.
Jerry, I think capaccino is some kind of Italian coffee.

Very interesting discussion, but I think that the bass pickup on most (or all) Rics has little or no mid punch because of it's placement near the neck, I know that none of mine do, that is why I eliminate the cap, I get all my mid punch from the bridge pickup. With the cap in and with volumes both on full I still got a scooped sound (I think it's worse with the cap). With the cap in and a backed off bass vol. I get a thin trebly sound great for 70's progressive rock but what else?
I like Dave and Pauls theory about the overtones being out of phase and I think that could explain some of the mid cancellation, but then how do you explain no mids on a bass with a cap with both volumes on full? (the cap blocks mids from the treble pickup so no cancellation will occur, there will be no out of phase overtones) I think the majority of punch comes a little lower than 300 hz. I still think that the majority of the lack of mid punch is because the treble pickup is much softer than the bass pickup with both volumes on full. Again, try taking the pickguard off so you have only the treble pickup under the strings and put both volumes on full, and back off the bass volume, you'll be amazed, or at leats i was the first time I tried it. And it is the same with or without cap, the tone does not change, only the volume. (with the cap the trebly sound just gets softer, without cap, the full sound just gets softer) Theory is great but I like tinkering a lot better. The bass pickup is too far from the bridge for any real mid punch. Look at where the pickup is on a P bass, it's in the perfect place for both bass and mid punch, or even listen to a 4000, it has all kinds of mid punch. A 4000 is just a 4001 (they never had caps according to Mark the MD.) without the bass pickup. According to the Ric books they added the neck pickup for extended bass response.
Jerry, I think capaccino is some kind of Italian coffee.

Well, with the cap in, only frequencies below approximately 500hz are cut out from the treble pickup...there are still overtones in the 500hz-1Khz range that are out of phase and cancell out those from the bass pickup. So there is still some mid-scooping going on when both pickups are full on and combined, even when the .0047 cap is there.

Bob, I agree that the 2 volume knobs interact in an unusual way. Slightly backing off the bass volume or treble volume makes big differences. It's totally not a case of "1+1=2 or 1-1=0", IMHO.

Bob - you really have hit the nail on the head there. I was about to type about the P bass Pickup. I mean, just look at a P bass- purely the pickup design - its amazing! It's location is perfect for the best mixture of deep bass, middle punch and tinny treble. Its no wonder that that design had been considered the best over the decades.

IMHO, the neck pickup on a rick (4001 or 4003) is not the "main" pickup. you can just use the bridge pickup - it will get you the same benifts that the P Bass design does, but you get that great Rickenbacker single coil grind.

the Neck Pickup gives me a few extra tones and all that...when im sitting at home,,,,,,but hit the stage and its all bridge pickup power. I also never use tone controls they are all the way up, i use the amp EQ to change the treble level.

The cap......come on guys its interesting from a historical point of view, but its actually real stupid. I think thats probably why RIC doesnt do them anymore. Why would anyone want to cut all the bass sound out the main, most powerful, most useful pickup on a bass guitar. In theory the Neck pickup can provide the lows but its not punchy enough AT ALL.

I agree that a capped 4001 has a nice tone. Very unique, but as soon as you play with a drummer you are going to suffer.

Yes I prefer no cap most of the time but somehow like the added versatility and flexibility of a switchable .0047 cap.

In fact, Sergio built a treble pickup for my Shadow with a mini toggle that kicks in and out the cap any time I want and I love it!

Owen check out some bands that used 4000's, they are punchy, my favorite is "Liar Liar" by "The Castaways" I think you've said you heard it, if not get a copy if you can, the tone is punchy as hell, and I think he's using a pick, Dave Westheimer knows.
Also "The Hollies" while not known as a very punchy sounding band had a nice bass tone from a 4000. Listen to: "He's not heavy he's my Brother" if that was not a 4000, their earlier stuff was.

Bob - haha yeah i know Liar Liar - great song! If I saw too old ricks for sale....one was a 4001....one a 4000.....same price.......but the 4000 was a better colour......id take the 4000. I personally dont care about the neck pickup. My 73 has the toaster but its for vibe really, i do think the hi gains are better. But then i wouldnt have the super retro switch

Big g: We're on the same page, I did understand what you wrote, I just disagree with the terminology of calling humbucking coils out of phase. That term should apply only to devices whose primary signals are out of phase.

Bob: Dick Roby was using a pick on "Liar Liar".

This has been an interesting discussion. There's no single answer to why frequencies behave as they do when two pickups are mixed. It involves the simple blending of two signals, some phase cancellation, some interactivity of the controls, the relative position of the pickups, and maybe other factors we haven't considered.

I sometimes wonder what amplifiers some of you plug your Rick basses into and who sets up your Rick basses.

Sergio,
I have wondered the same thing, because I know that makes a big difference. I set up my own basses. I use my small amps to set them up because if they sound good on a small amp they will sound good on anything bigger. I make them sound big on the small amps, I have two late 70's 4001's here in Lima with out caps in them. I use flats on them. I put the action as high as I can comfortably play, I have no intonation problems with either one. I have the necks almost flat (I like Paul Yans advice of one or two business cards of relief in the middle of the arc) I set the pickups for equal volume by ear. I used to always set the treble pickup higher but I was thinking back to the first Ric I bought brand new in '77, and it was set up with both pickups equal in sound so I went back to that method and they both sound great. I use 100 watt solid state Ampeg amps that have one 15" speaker in each to set them up, I always use my smaller amps to set them up because if they sound good in a small amp, they will sound great in a big amp. I usually use Ampeg SVT's to play, either with original 8 X 10 cabs or two of the 15" Ampeg cabs. I think that setting up a Ric (if you have the ability) is a highly individual thing. I, like a lot of other people here love to tinker with them, my wife said to me one day: Why do you always take this thing off or that off or do that, I don't understand? I think you have to own them and play them for a while to understand. Ric basses fascinate me. (and always have)
For me one of the, if not THE most interesting thing I can do is grab an old, maybe beat Ric bass and restore it and make it play and sound great.

I for one enjoy doing the basic setup (neck relief, action and intonation, etc.) on my babies. However, I seek help from my luthier friend when it comes to nut and saddle groove filing. And I agree with Bob that setting up a RIC, or any other brand bass, is really a highly individual thing. A luthier/tech's "politically correct" setup might not suit everyone's technique or playing style.

Usually, I setup my babies with my neutral sounding Ampeg B100R (solid state MOS-FET) combo. If they sound good through it, they are guaranteed to sound awesome through my Marshall Super Bass head + 4X12 cab...talk about valve magic!

The treble pickups of my non-.0047 capped 4003 basses are positioned to be just a tad louder than the bass pickups so that they get used alone when I need the mid punch to rock out.

On the other hand, I really love the deep ambient sound of a toaster or a high gain bass pickup in the neck position. Very nice sonic texture for mellower stuffs.

I find there are 4 sounds from a Rick bass that I use a lot (tone knobs wide open, no cap):
1-bass PU alone;
2-treble PU alone;
3-bass PU full and treble PU backed off a little;
4-treble PU full and bass PU backed off a little.
I seldom set both pickups full on and combined as the mid-scooped sound is over-thick and lacks definition. However, when they have the .0047 cap filtering out the treble PU's low frequencies, the sound of both pickups full on and combined is quite pleasing to my ears. It's quite a subjective matter really.

Recently, I've set my neck reliefs to be even less than before: one normal thickness (.010") business card for the E string and very thin (.005") card for the G string side. Action is 3/32" between the E string and the last fret, and 5/64" for the G string.

Just my humble 2 cents.

I get an upright-like tone on my 4001 with only the bass pickup on and tone on full treble, it's amazing to me. That is with TI flats.
And I think my B-15T's are, if not exact very similar to your Ampeg B100R, they are also 100 watt mos-fet output. with four tones, ultra hi, and ultra lo, and the upper and lower mid controls have a pullout frequency center control for each.