Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

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winston
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by winston »

sowhat wrote:Questions... mmm. Let's try.
1. Any particular recommendation on age? What age is the best to start? What are the chances for those who start at, say, 30 (don't worry, i don't want to start a career in music, i'm too old, ugly and talentless for that)? Are there any differences in starting recommendations for teenagers and mature people?
As promised Sheena,

With the exception of babies and very small toddlers, age should never be considered a detrimental factor to learning any new musical skill. Learning to play an instrument well has same basic requirements for people of virtually all ages. For example if we focus on learning to play guitar the only mental or physical limiting factors that may have to be overcome in some way are the inability to comprehend or remember structure and form of the music the individual wishes to play, or a severe physical impairment of the hands. As we know some physical impairments have actually enhanced the ability to play music, I am of course thinking of people like Stevie Wonder and our very own (Canadian musician) Jeff Healey who have little or no sight, but are world renowned musicians.

As far as the best age to start, I can only draw on my own musical experience when answering that question so that will have to suffice until others take an opportunity to share their thoughts on the subject. My father could not play a note on anything and neither could my mother. Never the less I was exposed at a very tender age to a broad spectrum of music. The music of Tommy Dorsey, Mario Lanza, Frank Sinatra and Slim Whitman* could often be heard in our household. My father loved Sundays. He would put Radio Luxembourg on the radio and turn it up to 11. :)

IIRC I started playing a penny whistle around age 3 at the behest of my grandmother. By the age of 5, I was noodling on the reed organ that she kept in the parlor. I played flute in school at a very young age. I took music theory at school until I was 16. The tune Red River Rock was the turning point for me. I wanted to play guitar so badly after hearing that record. Buddy Holly later became my idol. By the age of 14 with the aid of my father I owned a Hofner Les Paul copy and a Vox AC30 amp. A short few months later I was playing in my first blues band - The Confederates.

*Slim btw had to teach himself to play guitar left handed because he partially lost a finger on his left hand.

Starting late in life may only be as limiting as your time is limited to devote yourself to becoming a good musician. Chances are that if you start at a young age and you want to pursue a professional career badly enough, then you will. Those chances tend to decrease as you get past your mid twenties and the pressures of making a living and having relationships take away your focus on your music.

I hope that with the personal anecdotes and examples that I have given you, that I may have in fact given you some hope, because where there is hope, opportunity usually exists as a silent companion.

Answers to your other questions to follow.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein

"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by britye »

Brian, Don't know if this should be a seperate topic. but it fits with what you said about earlier in this thread re: producer calls the shots ect. Looks like once you make it big and over time things can and do change. This looks like a sign of the times. What's your take on this article and it's future impact on the record companies?
http://www.reuters.com/article/internet ... 22&sp=true
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winston
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by winston »

Hi Brian

Thanks for the article. I did and still do plan to cover this topic separately as it is indeed a very important subject. Suffice it to say that the business model for established artists is changing and that no one model has proven the most effective. A word of caution here. Bands or artists that are not established should carefully consider the business model that will be most effective for them. They should carefully consider their ability to finance the model that they choose.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein

"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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winston
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by winston »

sowhat wrote:Questions... mmm. Let's try.
2. Any tips on choosing the record company/producer/agent? How to understand whether the company is worth to work with or not?
3. What one should do in order not to become "star sick"?
4. What are tips on interviews? How to interact with media people?
Re: Any tips on choosing the record company/producer/agent? How to understand whether the company is worth to work with or not?

It's difficult for an unknown artist to choose a record company as that is not usually how it works. They choose you. However there is nothing stopping a new artist from targeting a record company or a series of companies that specialize in their chosen genre to shop their product to.

Established producers are again a fairly picky about who they will work with. They generally have worked hard to establish a reputation and they will protect and guard their reputation in a very predictable manner. They will normally only work with established artists. The possible exception to this largely unwritten rule, is if a new artist is so damn good that the producer believes that will not pose any risk to their reputation, then he will likely take them under his wing. That's a very long shot any day of the week, so never pin your hopes on that happening, The real trick is to find a producer who's stock is rising and who is willing to take you as an artist to the next level. It's one of the toughest assignments in the business.

Agents are parasitical. They will find you. Choose wisely.

Re: What one should do in order not to become "star sick"?

I need to gain a better understanding of your question on this one Sheena before I can properly answer it.

Re: What are tips on interviews? How to interact with media people?

Above all relax, remain in control at all times and be aware of the need to be camera friendly. Do not rush to answer or embellish your answers, do not react to leading questions, rather deflect and change the subject. If the interviewer is like a dog with a bone. Throw them a bone that will take the conversation off in a direction that you know that you can control. Keep your answers short. Do not respond to aggressive speculative or controversial questions directly but give answers that deflect to question such as, "I am not going to respond to that question because it has no basis in fact. Next question"

When you are ready to end the interview send an "end of interview signal". They will usually respond to such a signal in a positive manner, you will know if they received the signal because they invariably try to jam one more question in. If you do not feel like continuing use a dismissive wave of the hand to signal your intent to end the interview and leave the area.

Remember it is you that is in control your public persona. Don't lose control . Never let the media gain control. They may be in a destructive mood and try to fabricate or build on their perception of your persona because that story would sell. Keep in mind that their perception of you may be the exact opposite of the persona that you are trying to maintain. Their job is to create a newsworthy story and they really don't care if the subject or story line is not what you want the public to hear or know.

Hopefully you feel that your questions have been answered. Above all feel free to comment or ask for more clarity on this subject.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein

"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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sowhat
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by sowhat »

Re: What one should do in order not to become "star sick"?
I need to gain a better understanding of your question on this one Sheena before I can properly answer it.
Oops, i guess it's the language thing yet again, albeit the Rus/Eng dictionary says "star sickness" is the English equivalent of a Russian term i'm talking about. It's more of a psychological question than a question about business. Star sickness = superiourity complex. What i mean by becoming "star sick" is a situation when an artist feels he's a star and therefore he belongs to "elite", is allowed to do things we mere mortals are not allowed to, thinks we mere mortals are not worthy to talk to him as if he was a guy next door (instead, we have to praise him and talk to him as if he were... well, not actually God, but somewhere close), thinks it will last forever and when somebody points out his mistakes or disadvantages he reacts aggressively and never admits he's not perfect. In short, he thinks he's much superiour than other people around.
The question is, how to avoid that situation? Are there any tips?
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winston
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by winston »

sowhat wrote:
Re: What one should do in order not to become "star sick"?
I need to gain a better understanding of your question on this one Sheena before I can properly answer it.
Oops, i guess it's the language thing yet again, albeit the Rus/Eng dictionary says "star sickness" is the English equivalent of a Russian term i'm talking about. It's more of a psychological question than a question about business. Star sickness = superiourity complex. What i mean by becoming "star sick" is a situation when an artist feels he's a star and therefore he belongs to "elite", is allowed to do things we mere mortals are not allowed to, thinks we mere mortals are not worthy to talk to him as if he was a guy next door (instead, we have to praise him and talk to him as if he were... well, not actually God, but somewhere close), thinks it will last forever and when somebody points out his mistakes or disadvantages he reacts aggressively and never admits he's not perfect. In short, he thinks he's much superiour than other people around.
The question is, how to avoid that situation? Are there any tips?

Thanks Sheena, I have a better understanding of the question now and hopefully I can make a few comments that might be of some use to those who wish to remain unaffected by becoming a star in the music business.

If a successful artist were to ask me a similar question, I would have the following advice.

1. Always stay true to your roots. Remember where you started from and always keep that in mind no matter what you are doing. That way you'll appreciate your new found wealth and happier circumstances that much more.

2. Don't abandon your old circle of friends, there is a strong temptation to do this because once you become a star, you are now accepted into a new circle that includes other famous individuals. Again never forget your roots.

3. Help others, especially your family and friends. This does not necessarily mean help them in a monetary manner. Sometimes that is not at all what they need, especially if they are the type that cannot control or manage their spending habits. In many cases all people that you know really need is an introduction to a business associate or perhaps some timely advice or moral support that you can freely give.

4. Don't assume that your fans won't move on if you won't give them the music or the respect that they want and deserve. Always deliver to your fans, even when you feel that you are not working.

5. Respond to fans, friends, band mates, and people who are in your life with the same kind of respect that you expect from them.

Simple rules really but they work.

Feel free to comment, take issue or ask questions about this post or anything at all contained in this thread.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein

"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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charlyg
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by charlyg »

Not being in the business(yet), I can't add anything but I am reading with interest. I may put together a Gospel Blues band this year so anything I learn here is well worth the read!


Thanks!
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by teb »

Having actually been in that situation a number of times, I can't say that I really agree with much of the interview tip section posted above. It just seems awfully pushy to try to control the interview and lead the media person in the direction that you want to go. First of all, unless you're a very big star, you need these people and you need them to like you. They aren't your enemy, they're people who can help your career. They certainly may have limited knowledge of music and may not get all the details right, but I never got the feeling that they were being aggressive, asking leading questions or that the band members needed at some point to deflect questions, control the questions or cut them off and end the interview. That's what stuck-up rock stars do because they know that it won't hurt them and they can behave as poorly as they want without serious concequences. As far as I know, none of us who regularly populate this forum are big-time rock stars. If you're lucky enough to get the attention of the local media it's an opportunity to show that you're a great bunch of regular guys who happen to play great music and enjoy it. Be yourself, and answer their questions. Take your time. The interviewer is probably a lot busier than you are. If anybody decided to answer one of my questions with "a dismissive wave of the hand" I'd wave back with three of my fingers folded down and that's the tone I'd take when putting together my story or media piece. Chances of them asking you any question that you have to dodge are minimal and the worst thing you can do is come off like some sort of jerk.
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winston
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by winston »

Thanks, for your thought provoking post Todd,

It's always great to hear a different or in this case perhaps the opposite viewpoint on one or two points and especially when it is expressed with conviction based on experience. As I believe I said elsewhere in this forum, I appreciate you contribution and that the fact that you have taken the time to share your thoughts on this subject with us.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein

"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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sowhat
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by sowhat »

2. Don't abandon your old circle of friends, there is a strong temptation to do this because once you become a star, you are now accepted into a new circle that includes other famous individuals. Again never forget your roots.
This may be harder than it seems. There's another factor: not only you as a star-to-be is tempted to hang out with new "friends". Old friends may also feel uncomfortable with you in a new status. Not that i've experienced it to the full, but i've felt that effect a bit during my short "moment of glory" (most of you will laugh if i tell you what it actually was, but for me, it was closest to "fame" i've ever been). They aren't sure as to how to talk to and treat you now. On one hand, you're their friend they've known for quite a while; on the other hand, you're now kinda "higher" or whatever and they think, maybe they should not talk to you like before cause you're not a "mere mortal" like them anymore.
But maybe "raise and fall" shows who's who: who remains your friend in times of joy and tears, who takes you as you are; who leaves you when you go up high (cause of jealousy, or fear, or whatever — btw, these people may return to you when you fall and get back to the level they're on); and who's gonna be near you only in good times and forget you in bad times.
All in all, that's a long story, a tough question, and the answer depends on many factors.
Nothing will get you dead quicker than being deadly serious about yourself.
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winston
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by winston »

Hi Sheena,

Your comment is bang on IMO. Some of your friends may actually not feel comfortable with any change in status that you may have experienced an indeed slip away from your circle. My advice is to not initiate the feelings that your friends may be experiencing in this regard and to not push them away. Give them space. If they are true friends, they will likely return.

A few more personal thoughts that I should perhaps add to this thread that I have always tried to keep in mind as I wander through the thing called life:

If I died tomorrow would I have made a difference in some small way and did I always strive to do my best to make this world a slightly better place for those around me? That's a tough question to answer honestly. It does help to keep me focused on being grounded and humble about any good fortune that I may have in my life. It also helps keep me focused on the needs of others around me.

Thank you for some very tough questions as well. All of my answers, of course have been predicated on the basis that a person has "made it".

You know it's interesting that there is a very thin line between being at the top of your game and actually "making it". Many well rounded musicians and artists have experienced being at the top of their game but few actually "make it".

That leads me right back to where I started off in this thread. I don't know if we will ever discover the true nature of success. Looking in from the outside to some degree, it often seems just as difficult (but in different ways perhaps) for those who have it traversed that rocky road to success as for those of us who work 9 - 5 leading so called normal lives.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein

"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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winston
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by winston »

Even though it probably seems that this thread ran out of steam , in fact I don't believe that we are even close to being finished with this subject. There's a lot more that can be discussed. I'll try to write enough material to post some more thoughts over the next four or five days. In the meantime if you have any thoughts of your own on this subject please post away to your hearts content. All views are welcome and respected.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein

"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by mfb »

"Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art"

Part of that sentence is missing, it should read "Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art AND all about money" .

If it sells, milk it to the last drop, if it doesn't, throw it on the scrap heap.

:P :lol:
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sowhat
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by sowhat »

Doesn't "business" suggest "making money"? Short-term strategy (squeeze as much juice as possible right now, as fast as possible, then throw the peel away) vs long-term strategy (squeeze juice bit by bit and give water, sun time & some rest so that the fruit could produce more and during a longer period of time)?
Nothing will get you dead quicker than being deadly serious about yourself.
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winston
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Re: Rock 'n Roll - Part Business and Part Art

Post by winston »

Correct Sheena,

"Business" pertains broadly to commercial, financial, and industrial activity. Therefore the "Part Business and Part Art" portion of the title is appropriate.

Manuel does make another important point however and I'll explore that observation in due course. In the mean time I have to attend to business. :lol:
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein

"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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