Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

doctorwho wrote:I can't recall that any of my RIC basses have binding at the body end of the fretboard.

All mine do!.....except for my 89 4003S of course.

I was about to say I had yet to see another fake with checkerboard binding and then I found this Greco RB700:

http://www.digimart.net/images/62/DS00287576_1.jpg

Apart from the toaster, the crummy thumb-rest, and the poorly mounted pickup-cover, it's pretty much the twin of the bass in question.

I'm not sure how US copyright works with respect to the Japanese domestic market - fakes are posted up on Japanese retail sites all the time.

seyesbass wrote:Can anyone remember whether Ibanez did any copies with check binding?
It looks like an Ibanez to me.

They did - but this isn't one of them. I'm 99% certain it's a Kasuga (high-quality but fairly obscure Japanese builder) copy from the 70s. The Ibanez (built by Fujigen Gakki) copies had very small checked binding & most featured big Gibson EB0-type humbuckers.

A few other details that indicate it's a copy - the bridge has chrome saddles & round holes, the scratchplate is solid white plastic - not translucent or back-painted acrylic, and is shorter, meaning it sits more parallel to the body's lower curve than the real thing tends to. The tops of the control knobs have no script - and they will be push-fit rather than held on with a screw, the strap buttons are conventional style, rather than the knurled ones on a real 4001.

This is a very unusual & (to some) desirable bass - it really deserves to be in an enthusiast's private collection, rather than languishing in a cupboard for 18 years!

Jon.

ben_brown wrote:

doctorwho wrote:I can't recall that any of my RIC basses have binding at the body end of the fretboard.

All mine do!.....except for my 89 4003S of course.

Doh! I guess I don't spend enough time with my basses!

Is that a fretless Seagreen 4003 Doc???

They did - but this isn't one of them. I'm 99% certain it's a Kasuga (high-quality but fairly obscure Japanese builder) copy from the 70s. The Ibanez (built by Fujigen Gakki) copies had very small checked binding & most featured big Gibson EB0-type humbuckers.

A few other details that indicate it's a copy - the bridge has chrome saddles & round holes, the scratchplate is solid white plastic - not translucent or back-painted acrylic, and is shorter, meaning it sits more parallel to the body's lower curve than the real thing tends to. The tops of the control knobs have no script - and they will be push-fit rather than held on with a screw, the strap buttons are conventional style, rather than the knurled ones on a real 4001.

This is a very unusual & (to some) desirable bass - it really deserves to be in an enthusiast's private collection, rather than languishing in a cupboard for 18 years!

Jon.

That is cool! A man who actually knows the pedigrees of fakers. I am duly impressed. Honestly I just sort of lumped them together and never took the time to understand them. To a collector though that is very useful info. Would you be interested in doing a thread about this? I for one would like to know more about them.

rickfan60 wrote:That is cool! A man who actually knows the pedigrees of fakers. I am duly impressed. Honestly I just sort of lumped them together and never took the time to understand them. To a collector though that is very useful info. Would you be interested in doing a thread about this? I for one would like to know more about them.

Ted, Jon has posted a lot of this type of info in most Faker threads. When you have some spare time, search his posts and learn a lot. See what you missed while you were gone?!

rickfan60 wrote:That is cool! A man who actually knows the pedigrees of fakers. I am duly impressed. Honestly I just sort of lumped them together and never took the time to understand them. To a collector though that is very useful info. Would you be interested in doing a thread about this? I for one would like to know more about them.

Oh, definitely! My only concern would be annoying other members - I'm very aware that plenty of people are offended by these things (and I do appreciate the threat even the vintage ones pose to RIC) so I'd be a bit concerned such a thread might antagonise some folks.

I'm a collector & enthusiast of the whole 70s Japanese copy era, & I have a particular interest in the 4001 copies because I'm a bassist and have always loved Rickenbackers - plus, for several reasons, these are among the rarest of all of the guitars & basses to come out of the Japanese factories, which gives them a sort of mystique- well, it does to sad gits like me!

IDing these things is still often guesswork - there were many different factories, most of which are long-gone now, and Japanese basses & guitars were sold worldwide under a bewildering number of brand names, most of which offer little clue as to their manufacturer. Even the better-known brands like Aria & Ibanez didn't have their own factories, and identification often relies upon comparisons of details of known brands & unknown.

Anyway, what it does mean is that I can spot a Faker from 1000 yards - which I hope is an asset in a community like this one!

Jon.

bassassin wrote:

rickfan60 wrote:That is cool! A man who actually knows the pedigrees of fakers. I am duly impressed. Honestly I just sort of lumped them together and never took the time to understand them. To a collector though that is very useful info. Would you be interested in doing a thread about this? I for one would like to know more about them.

Oh, definitely! My only concern would be annoying other members - I'm very aware that plenty of people are offended by these things (and I do appreciate the threat even the vintage ones pose to RIC) so I'd be a bit concerned such a thread might antagonise some folks.

I'm a collector & enthusiast of the whole 70s Japanese copy era, & I have a particular interest in the 4001 copies because I'm a bassist and have always loved Rickenbackers - plus, for several reasons, these are among the rarest of all of the guitars & basses to come out of the Japanese factories, which gives them a sort of mystique- well, it does to sad gits like me!

IDing these things is still often guesswork - there were many different factories, most of which are long-gone now, and Japanese basses & guitars were sold worldwide under a bewildering number of brand names, most of which offer little clue as to their manufacturer. Even the better-known brands like Aria & Ibanez didn't have their own factories, and identification often relies upon comparisons of details of known brands & unknown.

Anyway, what it does mean is that I can spot a Faker from 1000 yards - which I hope is an asset in a community like this one!

Jon.

Jon,

That is very considerate of you to be concerned about upsetting other members, and I do mean that sincerely.

Yes, many of us DO get upset at the mention of "fakers", but I can't see why we can't look at the POSITIVE aspects of discussing them.

Information like this (IMHO) is VERY VALUABLE. Like it or not, they are a part of history. Granted, not the kind of history many of like to acknowledge, but they DO exist. Knowing how to spot a "faker" could save a LOT of money to those who don't know what to look for.

Now I'm not discounting the whole copyright/trademark issue, but that's been covered in other threads.

MY major problem with them is when someone tries to pass one off as the real deal.

I have a friend who did about $1200.00 worth of work for someone. He "payment" was a RIC copy, PASSED off as a REAL RIC, with OHSC, TRC, neck through body construction, dual truss rod copy. The ONLY way I noticed it was a fake, was the "STEREO-O-SOUND" jack plate, other than that, it sure looked like a vintage RIC. Needless to say, when I told him he was taken advantage of, upset would be an understatement!

I can understand the collecting aspect of it as well, although I'm not in that camp.

I'd by lying if I said I wasn't TEMPED by a faker or two in the past, but so far, I've been able to resist!