Led Zeppelin

[ric330]

Tough question. They were never faves of mine and this didn't help. I knew Page changed one word and put his name on Willie Dixon's song (changed You Need Love into Whole Lotta Love, and in so doing just totally swiped someone else's song. And I've heard the original version of Dazed And Confused, which is exactly the same as Zep's, musta been a mistake when he put his name down on that one, too, eh?):
http://www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html

Thanks Glenn, that was pretty interesting reading that link.

[studiotwosession]

And investigation into Page's alleged thefts would make a great documentary. The folks who have connected its various threads have succeeded in having it reach Page, and he hasn't done a very good job of dismissing the allegations when confronted by reporters.

[charlyg]

On that note, IMHO, most of the "stealing" was done by British lads, and I think they may not have realized what they were doing at first. You know,music from another country, seemingly forgotten by the masses, etc. Heck, they might have even thought it was in the public domain at first.


Folks like Page took it to a whole new level!

[studiotwosession]

There were quite a few bands in the British Blues movement before and during Zep's time, but I know of none of them accused of swiping multiple tunes, lock, stock and barrel, the way Page did. Cream was one of the first and most successful but they put Johnson's name on Crossroads, even though their version of it was light years away from his (whereas Whole Lotta Love is far closer to Dixon's original, Dazed and Confused is exactly the same, etc.) Clapton, Bruce and Baker were also willing to work with other writers and credit them, not unusual for 60s bands. Page was a music industry vet. long before Zep. He'd spent years working for people like Donovan, and the Yardbirds. I think he just wanted to be rich but wasn't much of a songwriter, nor was Plant (check the lyrics on countless Zep originals for the evidence), and decided to steal all he could. What's amazing is he got away with it as long and as well as he did. But his/their rep has taken a major hit in recent years. Which brings us back to the question of this thread; if you take away what they appear to have stolen, and consider the lyrical quality of the words they did write, I'd say they easily qualify as a metal band.

[peewee]

According to Steve Marriott, The Small Faces were playing a version of "You Need Love" at their shows and had released a version in '66 titled "You Need Loving" three years before Zeppelin recorded "WLL". Marriott recalled that Robert Plant was always around at those shows and then one day *voila*, "WLL" makes it's way onto LZ II. Marriott claimed that Zeppelin used his vocal arrangement of the song and felt fairly confident that it was Plant who was responsible. Marriott never had another nice thing to say about him afterwards.

[wmthor]

I've never been much of a Zeppelin fan other than liking Immigrant Song (I like the lyrics), which I considered then to be metal. In fact, I've never owned any of their music until a couple of years ago, when I bought a cassette of Led Zeppelin III at a used book store.

One of my many unfinished projects is my own arrangement (much slower tempo) of Immigrant Song.

[studiotwosession]

Plant's name certainly went down on the paper when it came time to claim ownership. So he's certainly no less guilty than Page, legally, and perhaps even more so on a song by song basis. As the song states about Dazed and Confused, in that case Page was the one who saw it performed live, copped it first for Yardbirds gigs, and later put his name down on the rights. I find it amazing the original author has still not gone after them on it. LZ appears to have changed nothing from the original recording, which I heard recently on web radio (ah, see, that's what Zep had going for 'em in the old days. Commercial radio in the US would never have played the original cut. Now the web is hunting down the guilty in two ways. By making available the information on the thefts and transmitting the original recordings for anyone, anywhere, to hear.)

[lyle_from_minneapolis]

I get tired of the old pastime of reviling Page and Plant for their sins of omission. They should have acknowledged the songs and writers from whom they borrowed. They crossed a line. But it would be foolish to focus on that tree and not see the forest. The fact remains that the hooks they borrowed were taken to a completely different place, and in the end it was simple lyrical laziness on their part to leave them as they were...had they written a few different lyrics they would have been home free, and any echoes of the original tunes would have been viewed as a clever salute to old roots. They were dumb and greedy, but the songs were a brand new sound. "Whole Lotta Love" sounds about as close to Willie Dixon as does "Purple Haze" to Irving Berlin.

[alanz]

Aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh Aah!

[winston]

A little tip of the hat here to "The Lord of The Rings trilogy. When the song was written by Plant and Page, The Lord of the Rings trilogy was only available in book form. Plant was an avid reader of J.R.R. Tolkien works.

An excerpt from "Ramble On"

"Mines a tale that cant be told,
My freedom I hold dear;
How years ago in days of old
When magic filled the air,
Twas in the darkest depths of mordor
I met a girl so fair,
But gollum, and the evil one crept up
And slipped away with her.
Her, her....yea.
Aint nothing I can do, no."

This song is very well written and very well played. It is a song that conjours up imagery and powerful forces that stir what seems like ancient memories in the minds eye.

Excerpts from Wilkipedia:

"The song's lyrics were heavily influenced by The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien. The opening line ("Leaves are falling all around") is probably a paraphrase of the opening line of Tolkien's poem "Namárië". The poem may also be the inspiration for the entire first verse. The Tolkien references later in the song refer to the adventures of the Hobbit, Frodo Baggins, as he travels to Mordor:

Plant later admitted in an audio documentary that he was embarrassed by the Tolkien references. References to the work of Tolkien also exist in other Led Zeppelin songs, such as "Bron-Y-Aur Stomp", "The Battle of Evermore" and "Misty Mountain Hop".

[shamustwin]

Very nice, Brian. I like the earthy Zepplin tunes as well as their Blues/Hard rock. They created imagery musically and lyrically.

Folk singers, bluesmen, others I assume would traditionally take someone elses song and work it into one of their own. Someone had to copywrite something at one point.

Page and Plant could have handled it more fairly, but for a young guy like me, LZ like the Stones, got me interested in and buying records by the originals. And most likely, these and other bands were responsible for the old blues guys making money, perhaps more than they ever had.

Muddy Waters toured with rock bands! Played Woodstock, didn't he?

So shame on Page/Plant, but bless 'em as well.

[mgauction]

I still love those guys!

[studiotwosession]

They should have acknowledged the songs and writers from whom they borrowed. They crossed a line.

Yes, and the line they crossed is the difference between borrowing and stealing. And they did it multiple times. Then, after Page and Plant were hauled into court, they STILL had the gaul to leave their names on the song, and as has been pointed out here, they not only were shameless enough to do that, they put their names before Dixon's name. That's wrong on multiple levels. They had the chance to put it right and they refused to. What's more, they did the same thing to an unknown writer with Dazed and Confused, and were lucky that he didn't drag their asses into court as well. If you've heard the original version, you know they brought nothing to the table on that one, and made millions on it. Page has been asked about it recently and has no answer for it other than to look sick upon hearing it, which he should. What Plant and Page did with Whole Lotta Love was take an entire song, all the words, all the music, drop in a few hooks in and alter the title. They left the authors name off and they put there's on it. That's like McGuinn putting his name on Mr. Tambourine Man, and leaving Dylan's off of it. So, sorry if you get tired hearing it. Page may have had hooks, but the guy's a crook.

[winston]

What's interesting to me about all this, is that the performance rights organization that has these songs in their catalogue should have picked this up early on and blocked all royalty payments until ownership of the disputed songs was sorted out. That's how the process is supposed to work.

[peewee]

Muddy Waters toured with rock bands! Played Woodstock, didn't he?

Yes, toward the end of Muddy's career he did share bills with rockers. I recall him being billed with Eric Clapton and The Band and a few others.

As far as playing Woodstock - No. You're confusing "The Woodstock Album" with the actual concert. Muddy's "Woodstock Album" was recorded in 1975 in a barn in Woodstock, NY - six years after Yasger's Farm - and was spearheaded by Levon Helm and producer Henry Glover. It was Muddy's last release on Chess after a 35 year working relationship.