Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Wouldn't a wood screw hold better than a machine screw? I've always wondered why Rickenbacker uses strap buttons with machine screws.

Because RIC has always done it that way, since the beginning of time! Isn't that reason enough?

dpowell wrote:Wouldn't a wood screw hold better than a machine screw? I've always wondered why Rickenbacker uses strap buttons with machine screws.

No - into a hard, tough wood like maple a threaded bolt is stronger than a screw. The wood is strong enough to take a proper machined thread, and because the bolt is larger it won't bend or break either. Rickenbacker go one step further and deliberately mismatch the thread on the bolt to the wood (US thread in the wood with a metric thread on the button) so it creates a 'binding' fit and won't work loose.

Into softer wood you would be right, and in fact most guitar manufacturers use screws that are slightly too small to do the job really effectively as well - including the ones supplied with the Schaller straplocks as pictured above (the Dunlop ones are very slightly larger and better). It really puzzles me why manufacturers can't get this right - it's obviously one of the most critical fitments on any guitar, and a 1" x 5/32" woodscrew is NOT enough into endgrain. Ask any repairer how many stripped strap button screws they've fixed in their career - and how many guitars broken because the button came right off.

BlueAngel wrote:

Darkhollow wrote:Another nice thing about strap locks is that it holds the strap ends further away from your guitar so you are less likely to get the swirl marks around the strap button after years of use.

Actually that is exactly one of the PROBLEMS with them. By moving the strap away from the surface of the body, you cause a large sideways bending force on the strap button and its screw.

Sorry guys. You both lost me.

What I was trying to describe was that on my 650, in normal playing position the strap does not rub along the edge of the guitar. Which on a Dakota with an oil finish really isn't that big of a deal but with a gloss finish it would make a difference. On my semi hollow with just regular strap pins there are swirl marks around the bottom strap pin from the strap pivoting while coming in contact with the body over the years.

The majority of my collection are acoustic instruments so my experience with strap locks is limited to my 650 only. But with my Rick, I have been nothing short of happy with them for the past 8 years.

firstbassman wrote:Sorry guys. You both lost me.

The standard Schaller and Dunlop straplocks both suspend the strap 1/2" or more above the surface of the body, rather than tight against it as it is normally on a plain strap button. This is a bad thing because it runs the risk of bending the screw that holds the button to the guitar. (Except from on Rickenbacker buttons.)

There is actually a version of the Dunlop lock which fits fully into the body and so keeps the strap flush, but that involves boring a 3/8" diameter hole right into the body - which most people don't want to do on anything more 'vintage', or even many new guitars - and then it also won't hold a non-locking strap if you ever need to.

BlueAngel wrote:Rickenbacker go one step further and deliberately mismatch the thread on the bolt to the wood (US thread in the wood with a metric thread on the button) so it creates a 'binding' fit and won't work loose.

I believe you're mistaken about that. I remember a year or so ago John Hall stated that the holes for the strap bolts are simply drilled, then the machine bolt is screwed in.

beatlefreak wrote:

BlueAngel wrote:Rickenbacker go one step further and deliberately mismatch the thread on the bolt to the wood (US thread in the wood with a metric thread on the button) so it creates a 'binding' fit and won't work loose.

I believe you're mistaken about that. I remember a year or so ago John Hall stated that the holes for the strap bolts are simply drilled, then the machine bolt is screwed in.

Thanks for the info, John. The strap buttons on my '93 330 come loose with even light pressure, though.

beatlefreak wrote:

BlueAngel wrote:Rickenbacker go one step further and deliberately mismatch the thread on the bolt to the wood (US thread in the wood with a metric thread on the button) so it creates a 'binding' fit and won't work loose.

I believe you're mistaken about that. I remember a year or so ago John Hall stated that the holes for the strap bolts are simply drilled, then the machine bolt is screwed in.

Interesting... I'm pretty sure I read on the RIC forum where he posted that the body is tapped for a US thread very similar but not quite identical to the metric thread on the (German-made) buttons, on purpose.

From the size of the thread and the fact that it is a proper machine thread and not a woodscrew, I'd be very doubtful if it would tap into maple by itself too (at least without a huge amount of force that would risk splitting the wood or chewing up the button), but I could be wrong.

BlueAngel wrote:

beatlefreak wrote:

BlueAngel wrote:Rickenbacker go one step further and deliberately mismatch the thread on the bolt to the wood (US thread in the wood with a metric thread on the button) so it creates a 'binding' fit and won't work loose.

I believe you're mistaken about that. I remember a year or so ago John Hall stated that the holes for the strap bolts are simply drilled, then the machine bolt is screwed in.

Interesting... I'm pretty sure I read on the RIC forum where he posted that the body is tapped for a US thread very similar but not quite identical to the metric thread on the (German-made) buttons, on purpose.

From the size of the thread and the fact that it is a proper machine thread and not a woodscrew, I'd be very doubtful if it would tap into maple by itself too (at least without a huge amount of force that would risk splitting the wood or chewing up the button), but I could be wrong.

The bolts are threaded into the maple with just a pilot hole. The amount of force depends upon how much thread is actually engaged. Drilling a slightly oversized hole (bigger than the thread diameter across the troughs, but smaller than the diameter across the peaks) makes it possible to safely thread the machine screw into the body.

Quick, cheap strap lock? Plastic bread bag ties. They look real elegant, too!

jingle_jangle wrote:Quick, cheap strap lock? Plastic bread bag ties. They look real elegant, too!

The real rock'n'roll version are the rubber washers from bottles of Grolsch .

They don't actually work too well on a vintage Rick button though - the top of the button is just slightly too small to really stop the washer coming off if you pull hard on the strap. They're better on Fenders!

I found that the fiber spacer ring from a Cliff/Re-An panel jack is perfect for a Rick button - it's exactly the right size that it will just go over the top of the button if you tilt it and get one side under before the other, but it will not come off straight when you pull on the strap, no matter how hard. I've got these on both my 381 with vintage buttons and my 4003 with the modern ones and they're totally secure on both.

Good point, John. With the later straplock-type strap buttons, they are more useful.

For those of you with the vintage style strap buttons, check out this link. I use these on all my Rics that have the vintage buttons and they work perfect IMO. You can get the strap locks (Sure Lock) built right into the strap or just buy the Sure Lock ends to attach to your own strap. Its like a clam shell that snaps over the button then has a belt snap that secures the clam shell from opening.

http://www.lmproducts.com/dspSurelock.c ... t=SureLock

Seems to me the super-awesome way to do this is to mount a threaded insert into the body and then screw the machine screw into that.

jingle_jangle wrote: Quick, cheap strap lock? Plastic bread bag ties. They look real elegant, too!

Back in my punk days we used the little bread bag closing tags. Free and easily replaceable when worn out.