Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

rickenbrother wrote:I'm sure Paul W will chime in here. I'd like his opinion also. I could be way wrong, but it seems this PLEK sort of takes out the human touch in a guitar setup.

Isn't that what they said when CNC machines started being used? "It takes the human touch out of guitar building." Now, no one bats an eye when the term "CNC" is mentioned. Even RIC uses CNC. Are new Ricks any worse than old ones? I'd venture to say that the quality of Rickenbackers has likely become more consistent as a result of technology.

I've played guitars that have been plek'd (never had one of my own done, though), and the ones I've played were fine. Sure, a skilled luthier or tech will always be able to do a great job and I doubt that PLEK machines will ever completely replace human guitar techs. But the machines, if properly programmed and operated, save time, save money and do a great job. The software and technology are continuously being improved and the machines will only get better and likely get cheaper in the future.

There are a number of major guitar manufacturers using these machines right now, and you may already own a guitar that was plek'd before it shipped from the factory and not even know it. JH has determined that it's not right for RIC right now. That's fine...that's his choice. But other major companies have already invested in the technology.

Hey, there are still guitars out there that are 100% hand built by humans and there always will be. But technology is here to stay, folks, whether we like it or not. We might as well get used to it.

...operative phrase here is "major manufacturers". To make the machine pay for itself, you almost need a full-time person to run the machine. What talented luthier wants to be a machine attendant? Yet it takes, from what I've seen and read here, a knowledge of guitars and experience in theory and practice of set-ups to get best results from the machine.

That's what we call a, er, conundrum.

Ric O'Sound wrote:. . .There are a number of major guitar manufacturers using these machines right now, and you may already own a guitar that was plek'd before it shipped from the factory and not even know it. JH has determined that it's not right for RIC right now. That's fine...that's his choice. But other major companies have already invested in the technology.

No "major manufacturer" has used it in mass production for the simple reason is that even the OEM manufacturer version simply isn't fast enough to keep up. They've only been deployed for custom shop use or at lower volume boutique makers. Furthermore, these units are vastly overpriced currently for what they are- it's a very basic PC-based CNC control operating a spindle that's Dremel class. I've had no problem paying as much as $250,000 for a CNC machine but I'll be darned if I'll pay $160,000 for something made out of Bosch or 80/20 off-the-shelf parts. Yes, one would think that the price would decrease as the amortize the software over more users, but in fact their business model make each new buyer pay for a portion of the software development they sell everyone by charging new customers significant "customizing" fees.

The concept is great, the implementation minimally acceptable, and the business model totally flawed. Let's see if anyone knows what a Plek is five years from now.

Interesting post, John. I figured you had your reasons for not wanting any of these machines... now we know what they are. Thanks for the insight.

A friend of mine has sent at least one of his guitars to be Plek'd. He swears by it, and was extremely satisfied with the results. Maybe not for every shop or manufacturer, but I've both heard and read about excellent results.

Don't they have to take the neck off of a guitar/bass to PLEK it? I was told that by the people at Lakland. I wonder if that would mean you couldn't do a neck through bass?

EagleMoon wrote:Don't they have to take the neck off of a guitar/bass to PLEK it? I was told that by the people at Lakland. I wonder if that would mean you couldn't do a neck through bass?

No, they put the entire guitar in the machine during the process. I watched a video on youtube a while back that showed the whole process. It's clamped in vertically and a stylus measures the height of the frets, string height etc. before the cutter grinds each fret.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG4BOLlKOb4

One thing PLEKing has going for it is that it's become a badge of exclusivity---assuming for the sake of argument that a PLEKed guitar does have some advantage over one that's had a good fret level/crown/polish job done by a skilled tech or luthier, perusing a few days' posts on, say, The Gear Page shows that there are lots of people who frankly probably can't tell the difference but are happy to have spent extra for PLEK treatment, and are equally happy to let everyone know that their guitar has been PLEKed.

These are, of course, the kind of people who pay the outrageous prices for Gibson Custom Shop Les Pauls et al. in the first place, so it's hardly surprising that those guitars seem to be disproportionately represented among PLEKed instruments.

I work at a Gibson dealership,and they have a PLEK machine at their Nashville plant,and probably have them in Memphis and Bozeman,Montana,as well...and since they make Tobias basses,they probably have one in Rogers,Arkansas...when your instruments are cranked out as fast as possible by people who make about $8.00 an hour,and you make as many guitars as they DO,I'm sure that the PLEK machines come in handy...I either hand hammer frets in,old school style,like I learned "back in the day",or use my arbor press and cauls,like they do at Heritage in Kalamazoo...my partial and total re-frets are just fine,thanks,and I can't see any reason to have a RIC instrument "PLEK'D"...our Gibson rep really went on and on about how great the machine was,but when playing their PLEK'D Les Pauls & SGs,I wasn't that impressed...

Ricknut63 wrote:I work at a Gibson dealership,and they have a PLEK machine at their Nashville plant,and probably have them in Memphis and Bozeman,Montana,as well...and since they make Tobias basses,they probably have one in Rogers,Arkansas...when your instruments are cranked out as fast as possible by people who make about $8.00 an hour,and you make as many guitars as they DO,I'm sure that the PLEK machines come in handy...I either hand hammer frets in,old school style,like I learned "back in the day",or use my arbor press and cauls,like they do at Heritage in Kalamazoo...my partial and total re-frets are just fine,thanks,and I can't see any reason to have a RIC instrument "PLEK'D"...our Gibson rep really went on and on about how great the machine was,but when playing their PLEK'D Les Pauls & SGs,I wasn't that impressed...

The instruments have plek-installed frets, but they still don't get set up at the factory, it is (or should be) well known that Gibsons set up is entirely up to the shop selling it (because Gibson knows a Nashville setup is worthless onces it's in California, Paris, or Quebec).

Not being impressed with an off the shelf Gibson is not out of the norm, once they're set up correctly, they've always treated me right!

Speaking as someone who is extremely finicky about his normal setups I'd be interested to try it.

henry5 wrote:Speaking as someone who is extremely finicky about his normal setups I'd be interested to try it.

I doubt you would be any happier with a cybernetic fret grinder than you would be with the work of a good fretman. The later can listen to you and make adjustments and recommendations based on your playing style and preferences.

I agree with what Ted just posted.
As far as routine setups are concerned, I'm quite happy with my own work.

Ricknut63 wrote:I work at a Gibson dealership,and they have a PLEK machine at their Nashville plant,and probably have them in Memphis and Bozeman,Montana,as well...and since they make Tobias basses,they probably have one in Rogers,Arkansas...when your instruments are cranked out as fast as possible by people who make about $8.00 an hour,and you make as many guitars as they DO,I'm sure that the PLEK machines come in handy...I either hand hammer frets in,old school style,like I learned "back in the day",or use my arbor press and cauls,like they do at Heritage in Kalamazoo...my partial and total re-frets are just fine,thanks,and I can't see any reason to have a RIC instrument "PLEK'D"...our Gibson rep really went on and on about how great the machine was,but when playing their PLEK'D Les Pauls & SGs,I wasn't that impressed...

JH commented on the productivity of the PLEK above. His remarks give me the impression it could not keep up with the pace of a production environment.

I have a Custom Shop SG, PLEK recipient, while it plays well and I'm no fancy fingered flamethrower, I detect no real difference from my other guitars, a Strat, a PRS, and a Rick 12'er. Does play well for an old warhorse Gibby.