Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

jingle_jangle wrote: Even the most agreeable and optimistic of these scenarios (for a '59 330F) yielded a relatively high financial risk (about $600K) spread out over an unacceptably long time span (3 years), and the end result was an instrument whose retail price ($6500.00) was in the "wealthy enthusiast collector" range--a very limited market, for a quantity (200) that, frankly, exceeded that potential market.

Not doubting you Paul, but just wondering, where does the $600k figure come from? What precisely figures into the cost of introducing a new model? I would think this is something that has become somewhat cheaper with the advent of new technology over in Santa Ana.

I would buy one of these (regular capri style, not the F body). Thin top and bracing, the real deal. Would be awesome.

sloop_john_b wrote:

jingle_jangle wrote: Even the most agreeable and optimistic of these scenarios (for a '59 330F) yielded a relatively high financial risk (about $600K) spread out over an unacceptably long time span (3 years), and the end result was an instrument whose retail price ($6500.00) was in the "wealthy enthusiast collector" range--a very limited market, for a quantity (200) that, frankly, exceeded that potential market.

Not doubting you Paul, but just wondering, where does the $600k figure come from? What precisely figures into the cost of introducing a new model? I would think this is something that has become somewhat cheaper with the advent of new technology over in Santa Ana.

As I mentioned, I merely pulled out a range of numbers from low to high that weren't ridiculous, for materials, hourly burden, and cost of R&D, based upon my long-time experience in the field. I know little to nothing about RIC's finances or their costs, but I do know the cost of people and machinery, and how long it takes to get something done in an R&D setting.

State-of-the-art doesn't necessarily mean quicker or cheaper or even better. It usually means a different balance between these, and 90% of the time, real economies come with mass-production. Low-production work, especially craft work or semi-skilled labor, has labor as its greatest expense. People have only two hands and one brain.

jingle_jangle wrote:People have only two hands and one brain.

The lucky ones!

I know that the Capri or F models would sell out faster than Jonas Brothers tickets (I wanted to be the first to mention them on the Ric Forum ). Hopefully we'll see them resurrected one day.

Meanwhile I can hope that fortune smiles on me and I stumble across an affordable mint second generation F.

never say never

longhouse wrote:
I know that the Capri or F models would sell out faster than Jonas Brothers tickets

I don't know that...

longhouse wrote:I know that the Capri or F models would sell out faster than Jonas Brothers tickets .

$6500 Jonas Brothers tickets? I think not.

longhouse wrote:I know that the Capri or F models would sell out faster than Jonas Brothers tickets (I wanted to be the first to mention them on the Ric Forum )

Funniest thing I've heard all day! Good one, Noel!

A Capri or F-body reissue would definitely be a cool thing to do, but the way I see it, it would never be in the cards. If a capri WAS reissued I'd probably be interested (wouldn't have the money for it, but still interested).

Collin is right about the Beatles thing, though. Even though they are one of my favorite bands, if it wasn't for them, Ric would probably be out of business. The only *REAL* attempt I've seen at a 60's NS 21-fret necked 360/12 were the Wilson and McGuinn signature models. Even the 360/12V66 and 370/12V67 (Japanese reissues of both) were limited edition. But you see 325's and double-bound 360/12's reissued every time. We RoMo freaks (Collin, me) should be thankful that the 1997 was reissued (as both the 1997 and the 1998, albeit with the wrong model number), and it's popularity was driven from Pete Townshend. What surprises me is that the 381 6 and 12-string models are reissued. I don't think anyone, aside from John Kaye, was famous for the 381. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If it isn't a Beatles guitar, it probably won't be reissued, the way I see it. That rules out the 21-fret NS 360/12 (made more famous by McGuinn and Wilson rather than Harrison), the RoMo models (except the 1999, which Macca played a version of), the 365OS (which estentially was the 360V64, now that I think about it), 60's 330's and 330/12's with slash soundholes, and especially the Capri and F bodies. If ANY were to be added to the C series, I'd be impressed.

JakeK wrote:
Collin is right about the Beatles thing, though. Even though they are one of my favorite bands, if it wasn't for them, Ric would probably be out of business.

See, that isn't really what I was implying though. I meant that it seems that RIC thinks that if it weren't for the Beatles, they would probably be out of business, and therefore cater reissues consistently to the "beatle crowd."

I think we should all give them credit beyond the Beatles---- 75 + years of quality instruments shouldn't come down to a couple guys who played them.

collin wrote:

JakeK wrote:Collin is right about the Beatles thing, though. Even though they are one of my favorite bands, if it wasn't for them, Ric would probably be out of business.

See, that isn't really what I was implying though. I meant that it seems that RIC thinks that if it weren't for the Beatles, they would probably be out of business, and therefore cater reissues consistently to the "beatle crowd."

I misread you wrong. Sorry about that.

I have to imagine that RIC has thoughtfully considered more re-issues or colors and perhaps offering them through a Custom Shop of sorts, since doing so would tend to expand the brand interest and awareness. The fact that there is no Custom Shop indicates to me that it's not financially feasable for them to do it. I just wonder what the cost is to NOT have a Custom Shop of sorts and the cost of NOT being able to increase production or have more flexibility in production. This is not a criticism -- just a ponderance. I'm still amazed that Ricks aren't even more expensive than they are -- even with the price hikes.

Jeff, thanks for a voice of reason.

Doing an occasional one-off paint and pickguard scheme is a different kettle of FG from a full-on custom shop. If the hassle were somehow able to be justified, it would exist.

Philosophically speaking, RIC is a manufacturing entity, and its customers are the dealers at the retail level. I could see how a custom shop could be a runaway success--and a total headache to the series-production, bread-and-butter side of the operation.

I think this reissue thing, and the relevant quotes from John Hall, should be a sticky.

dear mr. jingle...when you were mentioning about outsourcing to a small shop for producing a limited run of guitars out of house, we must also remember there is a pickup guy out there that produced a certain in demand electromagnetic product that was out of production since the late '60's...there could have been a licencing deal struck there, but it wasn't to be. would have been a legal profitable venture for both sides with no r&d or cash outlay on ric's part, just a royalty check in the coffers without lifting a finger save for a pen.

I'd like a capri please

Wha?,...

... Is this where we? ... no?,... Oh, Okay, sorry. Never mind, sorry.

Just in case the casual reader is unsure of what a Capri is/was:

http://www.vintage-guitar-show.de/rickyuedsel.jpg
Gorgeous innit?

And a first generation F model:

http://www.myoldguitars.com/images/full ... 349_01.jpg

And a second generation F (John Minutaglio's):

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u31/ ... r/360F.jpg