Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Nice recordings, Todd. I'm assuming those black paint-coated rounds are on a bass (you said Pedulla Buzz) with a pretty sturdy fingerboard? I've always been scared to use rounds on my fretless; the kind I do like (meaty steels) would probably chew it up. I'll go ahead and admit here that I ripped the stock strings off of my 4003FL almost immediately after someone in CS told me that flats would be okay. Sounds like you're getting some good tones out of it one way or another; the actually reminds me a lot of the LaBella Deep Talkin' Flats I just started using, believe it or not--especially that agressive snarl that creeps in behind some of the notes.

Woody, no worries about Sting, I just thought I'd give the man his due (and you must really check out "King of Pain" and its intro). While I understand your perspective on fretless and enjoy doing "something different" with it, I also just really like it because there are "no speed bumps" and you can really control your tone--even if that means sounding like Sting and doing something that may as well just be a stock P Bass. It's mainly that there are so many options, as Todd illustrated with those two clips of his Pedulla.

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Follow up to my LaBella DT Flats review... I was supposed to be working on a take home final exam last night, but at one point got totally burned out. At one in the morning I plugged the FL into GarageBand and was really amazed at the difference in tone, especially in the high end. I could practically get Chris Squire out of these strings if I needed to. Definitely JPJ, Jack Bruce, and and other seminal rock tones. While they're no worse off for jazz, I now see that these strings are also the best flats I've run across for aggressive and distorted rock. They take to the "rock effects" in GB very well, in addition to working really well on the "Round Bass" setting for a keyboard/Chick Corea-like tone. A pleasant-and-surprising turn of events.

Josh, The Pedulla has an ebony fingerboard with a thick, hard, glossy polyester finish on it. The finish is a major part of what makes that strange, almost horn-like sound when you have round-wound strings buzzing against it (think of the bass sound on Don Henley's "Boys of Summer" for example). If you're into the slap & pluck style of playing, it will also do a pretty good impersonation of the Seinfeld theme song bass sound (which I believe I heard was actually played on a keyboard of some sort). The fingerboard finish does wear down in time, but the factory is aware of this and they will recoat one for $275 if you ever wear through, which isn't chump change, but isn't bad on an instrument that lists at over $4.5K.

I Think there are multiple sides to the fretless thing. The very fretless-sounding jazz style is certainly one of them, and it gets a lot of attention because it's so flashy for solo work. Personally, I use a fretless mostly for the clean tone, which is better than what I can get with frets buzzing or segmenting my slides into stair-steps. Think of a cello - it's fretless, but you don't generally hear it as such, with an obvious fretless sound. I can also get a wider variety of sounds playing fretless than I can with my fretted basses. Whether or not you allow fingerboard buzz to be part of the sound depends on the bass, the settings and most importantly, what you do with your fingers. The Gibson, I almost always flat-pick, because I want the sharp, clear attack. The Hofner and Pedulla I almost always play finger-style, but they are nearly opposite techniques. The Hofner doesn't really seem to care much what you do with your left hand on the fingerboard, but it's incredibly sensitive to how you pluck a string with your right hand. A harder, calloused portion of a plucking finger will make a sound that almost sounds flat-picked. Softer, less calloused parts of the same finger make a much softer sound with less attack. As you play a song on it, you have to keep in this in mind. There may be spots in the tune where you want to use one sound or the other, but you generally don't want a random mixture of notes with sharp attack and notes with a soft attack.

The Pedulla, on the other hand, doesn't care too much what you do with your picking hand. That buzzing, horn-like sound is created (or not created) by your fingers working the strings against that polished fingerboard. I'm not even really sure what the procedures are to get the buzz-tone or the clean tone (some combination of pressure, vibrato, etc.) but you figure it out as you learn to play the instrument. After a while, you just seem to get a feel for it and as you're playing, you're thinking to yourself "I'm gonna' buzz these two notes, but not the following two, and you just let your left hand fingers do the work. You can certainly get some variations in tone with your fingers on a good fretted bass, but the range of them seems much wider to me on a fretless - whether you're intentionally trying to make it sound fretless or not.

I use GHS Brite Flats in a medium gauge on my Maton fretless - pretty similar to D'Addario half-wounds, but maybe a tad warmer. They seem to last forever, but that may reflect the fact that I don't play fretless that often.

I love the wide variety of sounds on those clips Todd - makes me want to do some serious practice...

Todd, thanks for posting your sound clips. They sound really good. I especially love the tome of the Pedulla Buzz. I was very tempted to buy a Pedulla Penta Buzz at one time, but then I modded my fretless Gibson Victory Artist fretless into a 5'er using the Wilkinson 4 + 1 kit, which was actually meant for F*nd*r basses.

Since Rick FL basses have not been so easy to come by and some of the Rick lovers have FL basses of other manufacturers and fretless basses have their niche market, I've been thinking about starting threads and putting posts like Todd's in them. The owners of RIC FL basses might be able to learn alot from those that own other makes of fretless basses.

rickenbrother wrote:The owners of RIC FL basses might be able to learn alot from those that own other makes of fretless basses.

Absolutely. I can pitch in there too if needed. I have owned two fretless Fender Jazz Basses (MIM and MIJ respectively) at different points, although they are both no longer with me. I'm working on having Bill Conklin make me a fretless Crossover 5-string as well. I have visited him at his workshop, and I really like his work. And I've checked out lots fretless P Basses, Stingrays, and Bongos before but none has ever bitten me hard enough to get me to take one home yet..

So Todd, what's with the knob layout on the Pedulla? It looks kind of like a Y. Is it set up to make it easy to keep the knob functions straight? Also, if you have any experience with 4000-series fretless basses, please give us your comparison of the two fingerboard finishes. I did notice the "honk" on one of the Buzz clips that you suggest is related to the finish. I don't think that manifests itself so much in the 4003FL, or at least not mine or not with my technique. I'd say my 4003FL is largely characterized by a big bottom end, a very smooth/warm response, and now that I have those LaBellas on it, a good dose of growl (a la your second Pedulla bass clip). So I'm curious about what you'd think of the 4003FL's fingerboard finish by comparison...

The Pedulla knobs are master volume, neck pickup tone, bridge pickup tone and blend, There is also a toggle that makes the system active or passive. It seems pretty straightforward once you start using it. Other than photos, I've never even seen a Rick fretless, with one curious exception. I've never lived in a town where there was a Rickenbacker dealer and when we were out on the road, we never had much time for shopping around. The Pedulla fingerboard finish is thicker, smoother and seems harder that anything that I've seen on my Rick guitar fingerboards, with no woodgrain texture showing, which might make a difference in "buzzability", but I just don't know.

The curious exception was a 1958 Capri that I bought used about 1974. I had my local luthier remove the neck and build a short-scale fretless bass neck for it with a gloss-varnished rosewood fingerboard. I used it for a stage backup to the Gibson for a while and eventually sold it during one of those periods after I left the band when I was "income-challenged". I don't remember it having much buzz-tone, but I was playing in a folk-rock band and that wasn't really the type of tone I needed out of it, so I didn't spend a lot of time monkeying around with other tone settings.

One of these days, I'll probably have Paul or someone pull the fingerboard off of my 2030 and replace it with a fretless one - most likely ebony, and without varnish. That bass has such nice, ringing, almost piano-like tone that it might be really good. I don't really need it to buzz, so I don't need the varnish, but I'd get a lot more use out of it if it was fretless. I thought about just pulling the frets and filling the slots, but given the choice, I really dislike any markers at all on the fingerboard. A handful of small side dots seems to do the trick and I find lined boards pretty distracting.

rickenbrother wrote:Well if you want MWAH sound, it's in the fingers.
If you want more Mahwah, I can help. Here you go:
Mawah

Hey, I know exactly where that town is

So does anyone use rounds on their fretless? What's it like? Got clips?

I've never done it, but I may be getting another fretless (well, I AM getting another fretless, the question is will I keep it or not) and I'm considering stringing it up with some kind of rounds, nickel or coated or what have you... or Ken Smith Slick Rounds perhaps... Ken Smith Compressors if I get really brave.

I use Xls on my Zon fretless to get the mostest® mwah from it. Than again, this does have a CF neck with a phenowood fingerboard so I suppose it does not fit the MO of this thread, eh?

I've got the RIck rounds from my 4003FL on my Fender Jazz FL. That rosewood fingerboard is a tank. The sound is snarly and bright in the mids and highs, yet has a nice smooth full low end. Of course, the Audere preamp has something to do w/ that.

Sorry, no sound clips yet. I'm just entering the 1980s.

FretlessOnly wrote:Sorry, no sound clips yet. I'm just entering the 1980s.

I'm not too far ahead of you!

jps wrote:Than again, this does have a CF neck with a phenowood fingerboard so I suppose it does not fit the MO of this thread, eh?

Yep, you'd best git outta here boy...

Actually I'd like clips if you have any. The title of the thread doesn't say anything about Rics in it.

That will have to wait till I get back from So Cal, next week.

Well I guess I'll just sit here refreshing the page in the mean time..