Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Richard, I feel if there are any 'unacknowledged' influences it might be because they either don't exist or they remain unknown. Having said that, The Beatles, IMO, were simply a compilation of many influences and like many bands of their era, the influences go back to the very beginning roots of music. In other words, this would include every genre of music that came before them. They were influenced by jazz artists like the Chris Barber Jazz band. In the late '50's the then Quarrymen even played a song written around 1917 called "Putting on the Style". While in Hamburg they often covered such songs like 'Moonglow' . A swing number that had often been played by Benny Goodman and Artie Shaw. The list goes on. It was all a natural progression from there I suppose.

Just because they were from England it doesn't mean their root influence came from medieval compositions or Celtic folk music. It was music which evolved from a myriad of influences.

For the larger question, possibly a study of the evolution of the European bard would give you a better answer

Can't forget Arthur Alexander.

From 1960-1962 the Beatles played on bills with dozens of different bands at shows. I have to believe those groups were their most direct influences. And these groups influences as well, of course (which we all know). These are the fellas they would have had lots of time both watching and sitting around with and discussing guitars, new sounds, harmonies, club accoustics, amps, song arrangements, clothes, and the stuff we all talk about here...

Here's one group that probably had some influence (and vice-versa) on the young Beatles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Th ... cal_group)

"Their musicianship and attack were legendary and they exerted a considerable influence on their contemporaries".

shamustwin wrote:Can't forget Arthur Alexander.

Yeah, Alexander for a very direct influence on John Lennon is always forgotten about. All the girl groups, too!

I think The Big Three could have benefited from adding another guitar and becoming The Big Four... which they had essentially been as Cass & The Cassanovas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Th ... l_group%29
Epstein arranged for them to audition for Decca Records and they recorded "Some Other Guy". The group were not happy with the recording, and appalled when they were told that Decca would be releasing it and would not allow them a proper recording session, so they could perform the song they way they wished it to be played.

Between Cass & The Cassanovas, The Big Three, Johnny Hutch, Rory Storm and the Hurricanes, The Seniors, Faron's Flamingos, Kingsize Taylor & the Dominoes, Tony Jackson & the Vibrations and others.... it was musical musicians constantly switching around.

Just goes to show that there are two types of bands: ones that have broken up and ones that are going to break up.

I agree that Arthur Alexander was a big influence for John, especially.

Another element that MAY play into their development is the fact that Hamburg was a seaport and so the audience in the bar could have people from virtually anywhere in the world. When a sailor tells you to play something from his homeland, you probably do your best to give it a whirl. That will lead you to learn lots of different songs which broadens your base of songs to pull influences from. Plus, they played for up to 12 hours, as I recall, during their Hamburg days. Filling that much time requires a lot of different songs. Put it all together and the requirements of the time and place would cause you to have quite a catalog.

Or it could be Jane's Mum.

Another mid career influence that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread was the Byrds. David Crosby is the one who allegedly turned George and the rest onto Ravi Shankar and Indian music. The Byrds were one of, if not THE favorite band of the Beatles, at least for a while. George 'borrowing' "Bells of Rhymney" for "If I Needed Someone" was a fairly obvious influence. Tom

sorry Tom,but I can't resist:
this is a good example of how things can change in a year or two.
In spring 1964 the Byrds bought Gretsch, Ludwig and Rickenbacker because of the Beatles,
and when George Harrison gave his new second 12-string a chance in autumn of 1965,
everyone said: oh, this really sounds like the Byrds....

Please listen to "And your bird can sing" (the anthology version) and you can hear the Beatles' thoughts about the Byrds and their priced possessions.

Wolfgang

wolfgang wrote:sorry Tom,but I can't resist:
this is a good example of how things can change in a year or two.
In spring 1964 the Byrds bought Gretsch, Ludwig and Rickenbacker because of the Beatles,
and when George Harrison gave his new second 12-string a chance in autumn of 1965,
everyone said: oh, this really sounds like the Byrds....

Please listen to "And your bird can sing" (the anthology version) and you can hear the Beatles' thoughts about the Byrds and their priced possessions.

Wolfgang

Hi, I'm not sure I fully understand your post. Mine was based on reading Byrds history. I know that the Byrds idolized the Beatles and their equipment was bought to try and mirror the Beatles sound. McGuinn says that his Rick 12 string was bought based on the Byrds seeing AHDN. My two main points were about the Crosby/Ravi Shankar influence and George's use of Bells of Rhymney. So, possibly George was most influenced by the Byrds. I'll check out AYBCS on the anthology. If the Beatles eventually rejected the Byrds, that's news to me, but they partied like crazy when the Beatles came to L.A.. I'm an amateur historian, at best. I never heard anyone say that the Beatles sounded like the Byrds, but I heard the reverse a few times (justifiably so). Tom

Also Gene Vincent and Tony Sheridan

And lets not forget the fundamental influence of Skiffle, and Lonnie Donegan

......don't forget Magic Alex.

yup... I suppose negative influences count too.