Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

well just to give you a hint, the trumpet (horn) sounds and trumpet effects used in the song "Magical Mystery Tour" and in the song "Artificial Energy" (Notorious Byrd Brothers) are very similar. Pure coincidence? who knows.

McGuinn also used a Moog synthetizer in that album, way before The Beatles used one in "Abbey Road".

Zurdo

Jim K.,

I just sat down and figured out the chords to "If You're Gone." You were right that it's in the key of G, and the chord progression was easy to figure out. I'll still have to work on those banjo rolls, though. It sounds like Roger did some overdubs there.

Robert

I'm sure you're correct about the overdubs. It seems that that has usually been his modus operandi. Glad to hear you're making progress.
JimK

jimk wrote:

Folkie wrote:Jim K.,

I don't know the song well enough to thoroughly dissect it. But I can say with some certainty that if you are fairly comfortable playing Turn, Turn, Turn, you probably aren't too far away from getting If You're Gone. Again, don't over think it. If you can figure out the basic chord structure, you'll be close enough. I know this is sort of vague, but it's the best I can do right now without you coming to Lawrence for a guitar lesson.
JimK

I gotta weigh in on this one...."If You're Gone" is probably my favorite Byrdsong....I really like Gene's songwriting, and the BG vocals on that song by Jim McGuinn and Crosby still give me goosebumps....

Permit me to describe how I play it---I use the standard 1st position G chord with my pinkie on the 3rd fret G note of the first strings (my 360-12, that is), and I shift my forefinger ONLY to the first fret note C on the second strings, keeping my pinky where it was, and strum the first four string-sets in one stroke then shifting to a first position Em chord.....yep....that sounds WAY too complicated, but if I was there to show you, it would be real simple.....I'm working on my recording of that song right now.......doing the drums first, a/la the Todd Rundgren method...

BTW---kudos on "This Old Coat" !!

I get your fingering/chord positions. Yeah, that would be pretty simple. Simple=good! Can't wait to hear your cover.

And thanks for the compliments on the song.
JimK

no dropped or alternate tuning to my knowledge,

Bells of Rhymney is in dropped D....Renaissance Fair was also in Drop D...with a capo..they were actually very innovative in that regard...and David Crosby was the one who taught Joni Mitchell what she knows...

And we wont get into Clarence with drop D, drop B, etc etc....

Don Miller wrote: And we wont get into Clarence with drop D, drop B, etc etc....

in that case the Admin would have to open a new room in the forum and call it "Country-style with Fender Teles"

the second CHORD in that song (F) is a nearly Open F chord, very spacey, can be applied in two ways:

first way:

fretted F note at 1st fret, E string -
fretted C note at 1st fret, B string -
open G note, G string -
fretted F note, 3rd fret, D string -
open A note, A string -

second way:

fretted G note at 1st fret, E string -
same as above for the other 4 strings.

Sounds awesome, spacey, and open when the Bass plays the F note, and a second guitar plays a normal F chord.
**also note that the second chord can easily be used for the opening chord in "A Hard Day's Night".

Fortunately, these chords are easier to play for a left-handed player who plays with right-handed strings

The background vocals really make this song too...think that was Terry's idea to sing that suspended 4th part, and I THINK it's him singing one of the parts too, but I welcome correction.

Christian

The best way to do that "D chord dance" at the turnarounds, is to bar the G, B, & E strings at the second fret with your forefinger, (So it looks like a Dmaj7)use your second (F.U.) finger to place on the B strings 3rd fret, and now your 3rd finger, and pinky are free to "Walk" along the G strings.

This is the only way I've ever been able to make this happen, really.

mcd220 wrote: The background vocals really make this song too...think that was Terry's idea to sing that suspended 4th part, and I THINK it's him singing one of the parts too, but I welcome correction. Christian

correction: I hope we are talking about the same song because "If You're Gone" does not have a Sus 4th part. It does have what's called a "Pedal" in the vocals, the sustained D note, (or in Celtic terms, a "Drone", although a Drone is always the Root note of the chord).

D'oh!! I stand corrected. Thanks Jos, for staightening me out.

What I've always found fascinating about those back-ups on that song, is how long they are sustained...it must have taken a really deep breath to get all that out!

Best, Christian

me too Christian!

who knows, they might have spliced and reverb'd the chorus vocals to make it sound continuous and haunting.

Zurdo wrote:me too Christian!

who knows, they might have spliced and reverb'd the chorus vocals to make it sound continuous and haunting.

That Terry Melcher was such a cheater!

Zurdo wrote:Also, all their albums were recorded at A=440hz, (the "E" note in a piano), no dropped or alternate tuning to my knowledge, the E flat tuning is something that Roger must have started in the 1990's, maybe for playing comfort ?

As for tuning to A440, Clarence White reveals the following about recording "Jamaica Say You Will" (from "Timeless Flight Revisited"):

"We did a good track underneath there, but when they added the strings there were almost 40 people in the studio and they had to listen to the track because we don't always tune on pitch. Instead of tuning to the piano, they had to tune from the earphones. So the whole orchestra is a little sharp and [my singing] is flat. I was embarrassed..."

Roger started tuning down a half step to preserve his voice over the course of the 100+ shows he used to regularly perform each year, from the mid-80s to the late 90s or early aughts. It apparently paid off because his singing seemed to increase dramatically in range and power. The vocal at the end of "Chestnut Mare" was the most vivid example.

perhaps for live purposes? why would anybody want to record in E Flat ? Strings lose their brilliance, they sound dull, too little tension, etc. Unless Roger has an unrevealed source for strings that can be tuned down to E flat without losing their intended tension.

I have tried this, I no like that.