Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Rickygirl wrote: Mmmm, considering Berry has been categorised as one of the top 10 drummers of all time, maybe that was a tad harsh. Or, perhaps he BECAME one of the top 10 after Boyd pushed him!!

Much as I think Bill is a fine drummer, I doubt that he was that good! Although, to be honest, the thought of some jazz-rock type drummer throwing millions of tricksy fills all over REM songs is a pretty abhorrent idea.

I know that compared to someone like Dave Mattacks out of Fairport, who Joe was familiar with, Bill is nowhere near as accomplished. However, I think he had a fantastic Ringo-like ability to play exactly what was right for the song. If he was pushed too far then I can understand Bill's dislike of the record.

Certainly claiming he was "used to working with really talented drummers" seems like a pretty insensitive thing to say. I doubt that anyone in REM would qualify as a virtuoso (although Mike Mills seems to be staggeringly good at everything he does!) but that's clearly not what they were about, thankfully.

As far as I'm concerned, none of the members of REM are virtuosos of their individual talents. It's how they use the talent they have, as well as what is created when they all come together. No one plays drums the way Bill does, in that setting. No one plays like Mike, no one plays like Peter, and no one sings like JMS. Let alone the song writing.

rkbsound wrote:As far as I'm concerned, none of the members of REM are virtuosos of their individual talents. It's how they use the talent they have, as well as what is created when they all come together. No one plays drums the way Bill does, in that setting. No one plays like Mike, no one plays like Peter, and no one sings like JMS. Let alone the song writing.

I totally agree. This is exactly what makes bands great...their individuality and their interaction with each other. AND then how they use their experiences.

Pumpkinhead wrote:Bill is nowhere near as accomplished. However, I think he had a fantastic Ringo-like ability to play exactly what was right for the song. If he was pushed too far then I can understand Bill's dislike of the record

Not sure that is totally true. If I'm not mistaking Peter Buck once said something to the extend that Bills loves "simple" drumming - just adding that which is required, without really fancy show-off or overly complicated fills. I think if one listens to the current Bill, Rieflin, especially how he does "Orange Crush", it's much more complicated and dramatic (and still fits the song, imo). What I love in both is that neither do what I call linear drumming, there's always a little detour or change from the pattern here or there.

I love demos - here's a link to a 1984 demo (hope Mitch doesn't mind as he plays on it) - this is not the released version, which was brutally murdered by filtering, but the raw version which does have some lovely tape hiss, though. I wished they'd included demos on the Reckoning re-issue too!
https://www.yousendit.com/download/T1Vt ... UUJjR0E9PQ

rkbsound wrote:As acclaimed as this album is, I think it really only holds appeal to hardcore fans. I'm not sure why. It's really one of the great albums of our time.

I think with most bands, as a rule of thumb, basically the best songs are the hits. That's not the case with R.E.M., or at least their earlier stuff. They have a depth and sincerity you won't find on most Rock 'n Roll records. Driver 8 and CGTFH are both excellent songs, but not the best on the album. And that's what throws many people off when it comes to Fables.

Fables is like a Hobbit hole - nothing too impressive, just a dark hole in the ground. But for fellow Hobbits there is nothing in the world like it! It's a cozy place to quietly relax with your feet up in front of the fire, smoke your pipe, listen to old folk tales, and sing a song about the changing of the leaves.

Let's hope the release of the deluxe edition prompts some of the younger fans who only know "Automatic for the People" and beyond to discover the lost treasure of "Fables."

I was into REM since Murmur came out and Radio Free Europe was actually receiving play on the 'new wave' station out of Seattle. They were of course the band us indie/college folk drooled over and almost singlehandedly made Ricks cool in the '80s. I've said it before: when Mike Mills swapped his Rick for a Precision the bass sound got a lot blander!
I remember being somewhat disappointed with this album but there are great moments. I actually stopped buying after Out of Time, and Green was the last album I really enjoyed. As for Bill's drumming, when I finally saw the band several years after this album the biggest surprise to me was how great and important to the band his drumming was. He really needs greater credit for his contributions.

Wildberry wrote:

Pumpkinhead wrote: I love demos - here's a link to a 1984 demo (hope Mitch doesn't mind as he plays on it) - this is not the released version, which was brutally murdered by filtering, but the raw version which does have some lovely tape hiss, though. I wished they'd included demos on the Reckoning re-issue too!
https://www.yousendit.com/download/T1Vt ... UUJjR0E9PQ

Nice. I like some of their old demos and rarities. Fun stuff!

Rickygirl wrote:

rkbsound wrote:As far as I'm concerned, none of the members of REM are virtuosos of their individual talents. It's how they use the talent they have, as well as what is created when they all come together. No one plays drums the way Bill does, in that setting. No one plays like Mike, no one plays like Peter, and no one sings like JMS. Let alone the song writing.

I totally agree. This is exactly what makes bands great...their individuality and their interaction with each other. AND then how they use their experiences.

I enjoy the term "counterpoint" in music to refer to how the instruments relate to one another. REMs music certainly defines pure counterpoint as opposed to a wall of sound where everyone is just doing the same thing. Being of simple musical mind myself, it actually took me a while to understand and enjoy what they were/are doing. Kinda of like joining the mob though...Once I got into it..I can't get out

harborcoat26 wrote:Fables is like a Hobbit hole - nothing too impressive, just a dark hole in the ground. But for fellow Hobbits there is nothing in the world like it! It's a cozy place to quietly relax with your feet up in front of the fire, smoke your pipe, listen to old folk tales, and sing a song about the changing of the leaves.

Ooh, I must save this as fav quote!

chucksimms wrote:when Mike Mills swapped his Rick for a Precision the bass sound got a lot blander!

Actually, as regards main live bass, Mike swapped the Rick för a Guild Pilot in late 84/early 85. He then used that bass for a few years until switching to a black Precision for either the '87 or '98 tour. From '95 on the blonde Precision has been pretty much the only bass he's played live.