Question about push/pull pot for vintage tone cap.

[ig55]

And, well, those small square pots are very un-Rickenbackerish if you know what I mean

Hahaha... Yes man, I know what you mean. I usually modify each and every bass I have. But when it comes to Ricks, I suddenly become a fanatic purist. Now I have to choose between Dremelling my preciousss if the Alpha pot doesn't fit, or to use a non-Ric pot hidden under the hood

Holy smoke!!!

[Wiker]

And, well, those small square pots are very un-Rickenbackerish if you know what I mean

Hahaha... Yes man, I know what you mean. I usually modify each and every bass I have. But when it comes to Ricks, I suddenly become a fanatic purist.

Exactly.

I had a closer look at that Alpha pot. Instead of just cutting off the lip at the bottom, the whole bottom can be removed. Then grind the metal sides of the casing down to the black plastic part in the switch. This will reduce the depth to ~24.8mm. If that is not enough it should be possible to grind down the whole thing, including the black plastic part, a little bit without hurting the functionality of the switch.

[ig55]

had a closer look at that Alpha pot. Instead of just cutting off the lip at the bottom, the whole bottom can be removed. Then grind the metal sides of the casing down to the black plastic part in the switch. This will reduce the depth to ~24.8mm. If that is not enough it should be possible to grind down the whole thing, including the black plastic part, a little bit without hurting the functionality of the switch.

Wiker, that was so helpful. Thanks a lot bro.

If I remember correctly, the depth of my V63 measured something around 28mm. I had measured it when I opened the hood to install the .0047uF cap. If that's the case, Alpha is definitely the way to go. However, I'm famous with my bad memory so I have to measure again to be sure

[ig55]

The Alpha 500K push/pull has been ordered from Banzai Music. I'll post the results when the operation is over. Many thanks for the help

[dricard]

Another take on the situation:

I think I used an aftermarket pot to backdate my 1997 4003 (upgrade?) to the .0047uf cap. I noticed the pot was a little too tall for the control cavity. I have a router. I have no qualms about routing ANY of my fenders (I've done this on my '74P to correct some picup height screw holes) but for the Rickenbacker, NO.

I never thot about grinding down the pot- but might I suggest just installing the pot on the p-guard, and just loosely tightening the p guard screws down so the guard bulges a LITTLE. You cant tell looking at the interument head on, only a little bulge from the side, no damage to the wood nor risk of shorting out the pot with metal FOD from trimming grinding it down.

[ig55]

Yeah, that might be acceptable, too. I've faced a similar situation while installing a stacked pot on my old 4003, for the Bartolini mute compartment add-on pickup (Bass Volume/Mute Volume). The extra height of the stacked pot created a very slight and barely noticeable bulge on the pickguard.

We'll see what happens when the ordered push/pull pot arrives...

Btw, I'll soon order a clear fingerrest from Pickguardian, and bend up the horseshoes to get closer to the real '63 looks. I've been drooling a lot lately on the topics related to the RM1999's

[rictified]

Man how times change, I can remember when everyone here except Sergio couldn't wait to pull that infernal life-sucking cap out of their basses.

[rickaddict]

Man how times change, I can remember when everyone here except Sergio couldn't wait to pull that infernal life-sucking cap out of their basses.

I'm still with you, Bob. Once I learned how to remove that tightly wrapped bungee cord from the testicles of my bass, there was no looking back. Ever. 20 years of compromised tone had gloriously ended and my audience and I rejoiced!

The scene was not unlike this one here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5iseJJ5ogA

"Ding dong, the cap is dead,
the cap is dead, the cap is dead.
Ding dong, the wicked cap is dead!"

[rickaddict]

...But hey...If you think the cap sounds good, then go for it!

[cassius987]

Have you guys seriously never heard the cap through a high impedance input? I know the sounds you guys are talking about (and they are terrible) but when you buffer the signal properly, the story is completely different.

[rickaddict]

Have you guys seriously never heard the cap through a high impedance input? I know the sounds you guys are talking about (and they are terrible) but when you buffer the signal properly, the story is completely different.

That may be. I plug my basses into my amps using the 1/4" jack. I don't generally use Rick-O-Sound, although I think it's kinda cool for those who do use it. I play finger style, and my pickup balance usually heavily favors the bridge pickup.

I understand that there are many different ways to play a Rick bass; that some prefer their pickup balance to heavily favor the neck pickup, and that their sound might be good with the cap. I just like to ruffle feathers!

[cjj]

Have you guys seriously never heard the cap through a high impedance input? I know the sounds you guys are talking about (and they are terrible) but when you buffer the signal properly, the story is completely different.

Yes, amplifier input impedance makes a big difference...

<WARNING! TECHNO-NERD MODE ON!>
The inline cap, as most of us know, cuts bass frequencies. It does this because it forms a "high pass" filter. This is made by having a series cap followed by a parallel resistor to ground (the volume pot). But, the input impedance of the amp also acts like a resistor to ground, in parallel to the volume pot.

The cutoff frequency (where the output power is 1/2 the input) is given by:

Fc = 1/(2*PI*R*C)

Where PI is 3.14159265, R is the resistance to ground, C is the cap. From this, we can see that if R increases, the cutoff frequency decreases. If R decreases, Fc increases.

So, a lower input impedance will push the cutoff frequency higher, cutting not only lows, but also getting into the midrange as well. Also, where the volume pot is set will also affect the cutoff frequency. Full on will give the lowest Fc and the most bass response.

<TECHNO-NERD MODE OFF!>

OK, you're all safe now, no more math...

[ig55]

I realized that, with the capped HS pickup, the Treble Tone control makes drastic changes in tone. Without the cap, I don't remember it having that much effect. The setting I favor the most in fingerstyle is something like this: Bass Vol @ 80%, Bass Tone @ 60%, Treble Volume 100%, Treble Tone 40%. Then, I keep a pedal parametric EQ on the floor, set to slightly cut the treble range (like over ~3K), which I engage when I switch to pick-style. Super crispy Rick'o'delight

The only reason I want to bypass the cap is to be able to use the treble pickup soloed. Both pickups on with the uncapped HS produces a tone that's too boomy and can easily be lost in the mix.

Btw, I use a seriously buffered signal chain, thanks to the two Boss pedals (tuner and parametric EQ), each with an input impedance of 1MOhm. Also, my amp (Genz Shuttle 6.0) has an input impedance over 500KOhm. Maybe that's why I am fond of the cap. Who knows?

[Wiker]

While under the hood you could also take the time to try a 22nF cap on the treble tone.

With 47nF, treble tone all the way down makes my bridge pickup as dark as the neck pickup. I like that sound, dark and mellow, but it sounds almost like the neck pickup. The 47nF tone cap seems to filter out lots of high mids, and a good portion of low mids too.
A 22nF cap on the treble tone takes out treble, fret noise etc., without touching much mids. Sounds really good with the bridge pickup soloed.

All my pickups are around 8K though. Don’t know how a 22nF will sound high wound pickups.

[ig55]

My G&L L1500 used to have a stock tone cap of 22nF. I swapped it out for a 50nF cap. I usually prefer little or no treble on the bridge pickup. I already use the capped HS with the tone control around 40%. That much of a treble cut cannot be achieved with a 22nF cap.

However, a wiring like this may be possible: The vintage tone control utilizes only one row of the DPDT switch. The other row may be used as a switch for treble-cut caps, so that the stock 47nF cap is engaged in the "capped HS" mode and switches to a 22nF cap in the "uncapped HS" mode. I have the 22nF from the G&L somewhere in my spare parts drawer. I'll definitely give that a shot...

Btw, the orange drop cap I have is a somewhat large one. Below is picture of it next to a pick as comparison.


The code on the cap is "472J, 600V". "472" means 0.0047uF, which is the correct value, and "J" means 5% tolerance, which is also good. Does the voltage value matter? I mean is 600V OK? Can I use this without any problems?