Led Zeppelin - Thieves or genius?

[harley]

There's another one where a blues song has a striking (meaning damn near exact) resemblance to portions of Whole Lotta Love. I'd have to go back and look it up but it is either a Muddy Waters song or a Willie Dixon song (or both). I think they went a bit past the "paying homage" to their heroes. Then again, I wonder how many others tried the same thing but were better at hiding it.

I will say this, if you like Led Zeppelin, dive into some of the old Blues, and new, recordings. They're full of great material.

[Clint]

There are a lot of cases of plagerism in Zep's catolog but most of the examples in that youtube clip aren't them. Memphis Minnie is credited on When the Levy Breaks. Babe I'm Going to Leave You is credited as traditional. Willie Dixon is credited on most of his songs. Stairway to Heaven is similar, but many chord progressions are. I think Dazed and Confused is the most damning, that one is just a straight rip off.

Original pressings credit Led Zepp members. It was only after they were caught that the credits changed.

Oh man....That's just so not cool. I was always aware LZ had some "borrowing" issues, but I never realized it amounted to full scale theft.

[incubus2432]

Hearing LZ always made me cringe and after learning some time ago about them taking credit for work that clearly wasn't their own made my disdain for them even stronger. Low life character lacking hacks. IMO.

[77jordan]

Still geniuses.

[nukebass]

Stairway wasn't stolen from Taurus, I don't think. Chord progressions really can't be copyrighted and there are only so many ways to play that line.

Dazed and Confused is the worst example, since they claim they thought Babe I'm Gonna Leave You was a traditional song.

Lyrically, though, I have to wonder how many of those blues lyrics were originated by the blues guys who wound up recording them. A lot of the blues lyrics Zeppelin used were standard lyrics and who knows where they originally came from. It would be like trying to figure out who wrote Ring Around the Rosie?

Does the record company have any responsibility in this since they are publishing the music?

[Zurdo]

none of this matters, it's Led Zeppelyn for heaven's sake, the one and only. any of us would like to be in their shoes yesterday and today.

you wanna hear a blatant plagiarizing of recent ?

remember "Stormy" ? ( The Classics IV )

listen to John Legend's "Save Time".

he copied the song "Stormy" and then changed the lyrics. What a ripoff ! And the worst part of it? the guy is being idolized for being such a "magnificent composer".

[electrofaro]

it's Led Zeppelyn for heaven's sake, the one and only. any of us would like to be in their shoes yesterday and today.

Pardon me? I'd rather not be Led Zeppelin, thankyouverymuch - I've never been interested in anything they did, they never managed to get my attention at all! They're rather a boring band!

[indianation65]

I still love Page and Jones...two sharp knives. I never cared much for Plant, but the ex-gf thought/thinks he's the best. I can't wait to show her this video! I borrowed the Nuge's "Stranglehold" riff for one of my songs, not yet recorded. I may hold off until Terrible Ted gives me permission one day, probably over a campfire having a nice B.C. bear steak!

...wisdom through altering

[peewee]

It's well documented they they lifted from everyone, especially Page, and put their names on the credits. I can't recall the website as it's been a few years, but there was a site that had every title and the artist from which the LZ song was taken from. Here are a few other songs that were partially taken or flat out stolen by Page & Plant:

1) Although this was included in the clip, Page & Plant copied Sonny Boy Williamson's version of "Bring It On Home" from 1963 on Chess complete with the same vocal phrasing and timbre that Plant used on LZ II. No credits until after the law suit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_BlibrQTmU

2) Albert King's "The Hunter" was used for the middle section "How Many More Times". No credits.

3) Muddy Waters' version of "You Need Love" -- written by Willie Dixon -- was originally redone by Steve Marriott and The Small Faces in 1966 under the title of "You Need Loving'" and credited Dixon. Marriott recalled how they were floored when they heard LZ do this song which was way too close to the Small Faces version, complete with vocal styling, for comfort. Marriott had said that he wanted to kick the s*** out of Plant because only Percy Plant had ever heard them play this song as he was in attendance at a number of their shows then. Have a listen, especially the first verse and the last verse, a decide for yourself. No credits until after the lawsuit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkQpZpFLpv4

There are many, many more instances and I have to say that I hated them for a very long time because of the plagiarism and failure to give credit where credit was due. But in the big scheme of things, it's only Rock & Roll and I still enjoy listening to Zeppelin. I'd have been a lot easier on them had they just done the right thing from the beginning instead of trying to lay claim to someone else's IP. Now, if you'll forgive me, I'm off to crank "Black Dog" on my player!

[winston]

So..............in summary LZ is a Band of Thieves.

[Tarrbot]

I know I'm a bit late to this one but I think this youtube video seems to be forgetting a long tradition that was held in blues circles of copying and passing stuff around... of which, several of these 10 "cases" are blues songs.

This type of thing wasn't unknown back in the 60s and forms of it existed well into the 80s with things like The Roxanne Wars with up to 100 acts passing stuff back and forth based primarily on one song, in that instance.

Furthermore, in some of those "cases" the two resulting songs are tonally different and while the songs may be lyrically the same they aren't anywhere near the same... An example of this is Sweet Dreams (Are Made of These). No one anywhere would compare the sound of The Eurhytmics original to Marilyn Mansons' other than to have a favorite version. Another example would be this current version of Bad Company played by some monstrosity of a band recently. The two songs sound no where near the same tonally but lyrically they're the same.

I do realize that permissions were given by Annie Lennox and Bad Company (ironic that this is a Swansong label, isn't it?)

I don't know that I'd pass them off as thieves so much as opportunists... and this was a bit more widespread back in the day and due diligence was not a term used much in the record industry back then so it stands to reason that no one cared too much about the legalities of crediting where and when things were borrowed until later.

Everyone borrowed from others and they still do. Maybe Atlantic had some really crummy legal team back in the 60s and didn't understand concepts like due diligence or copyright.

Obviously they were concerned with copyright and this happens even today. As a former writer, I always asked how much I could borrow without giving credit. Yes, I could be termed a thief or an opportunist. I don't care what you'd call it. I called it getting the job done. I'm sure the same thing happens in many creative fields. It's not a new concept and Led Zeppelin definitely didn't originate it.

I think this type of youtube video unfairly portrays things simply due to the lack of context and while yes, in black and white, it doesn't look pure it isn't like this type of thing never happened.

And... I can guarantee that in some of those blues songs that were "ripped off" those that were ripped off did the same thing to someone else down the line. Maybe not all of them, but I'd say at least one or two of those old blues songs.

What's that saying? "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"?

[just_bassics]

If you create something, proudly put your name on it and stand behind your work. If you "borrow", "are inspired by" or simply want to cover someone else's creations with your own personal arrangement, give credit and / or royalties where due. Otherwise, live with the fallout, both legal and social, when it hits the fan. Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery but it isn't written into copyright, patent or trademark legislation anywhere I've seen, unless, of course, due permission is granted for the legal holder of copyright, patent, etc...

Just my $0.02 worth on the subject and yes, I still listen to and enjoy LZ very much for their songs and arrangements, especially Page's acoustic and JPJ's bass lines. LZ III is one of my all time favorite records.

[coolingitdown]

I LOVE Led Zeppelin. Let me throw that out there to start. They're nowhere near my favorite band, but I'd say Led Zeppelin III, IV, and Houses of the Holy qualify as desert island discs for me.

That said, they weren't terribly original as far as I'm concerned, one of the more blatant examples being, as mentioned, Whole Lotta Love. I mean, if you're gonna change it, at least change it enough so that the other tune doesn't immediately spring to mind!

I'll watch the video later. No time now. Just a quick 2 cents worth of my opinion!