Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

iiipopes wrote:

cjj wrote:So, since you say that the magnets are reversed coil to coil (makes sense), are you saying that the cores for the coils are magnets?

Yes. Note that the bass is solid, machined just enough to be a cradle for the coils, so there is nowhere for there to be a magnet under the coil.

Thanks! That's what I figured, but not having dimensions, or ever having seen a 4002 or one of its pickups in person, it was hard to tell whether or not they had a thin magnet of some sort underneath...

Also, with the multitude of wires present, this looks like a 4002 bridge pickup with the interleaved low-Z windings. Red and black leads are conventional high-Z in series; blue and green are the low-Z leads. However, it is hard to tell if the low-Z is in series or parallel.

I just had another one of these in for rewind. The Low Z circuit is an initial winding of .375k on each coil with 42 gauge wire for a total output of .75k. Then a second winding of 42 gauge is added to 3.75k for the regular circuit of 7.5k. The coils are in series. What you wind up with is two humbuckers in one pickup. One humbucker inside the other. The magnets are also both polarized in the same direction. This doesn't cause an out of phase effect because the strings do not cross talk on the bass. This reinforces the magnetic field versus cancelling if they were opposite poles....N and S attracting....essentially partially shorting out the magnetic field.

brantleyrewinds wrote:I just had another one of these in for rewind. The Low Z circuit is an initial winding of .375k on each coil with 42 gauge wire for a total output of .75k. Then a second winding of 42 gauge is added to 3.75k for the regular circuit of 7.5k. The coils are in series. What you wind up with is two humbuckers in one pickup. One humbucker inside the other. The magnets are also both polarized in the same direction. This doesn't cause an out of phase effect because the strings do not cross talk on the bass. This reinforces the magnetic field versus cancelling if they were opposite poles....N and S attracting....essentially partially shorting out the magnetic field.

Great and interesting news. Welcome aboard the RRF train too.

Hopefully I'llnever have to take one of mine apart!!

Sepp

brantleyrewinds wrote:...42 gauge...

42? Really? That's another interesting departure... I thought RIC had always preferred 44 AWG. Changing the wire gauge can certainly contribute to a pickup's tone. Was the main coil also 42 AWG, or 44?

brantleyrewinds wrote:I just had another one of these in for rewind. The Low Z circuit is an initial winding of .375k on each coil with 42 gauge wire for a total output of .75k. Then a second winding of 42 gauge is added to 3.75k for the regular circuit of 7.5k. The coils are in series. What you wind up with is two humbuckers in one pickup. One humbucker inside the other. The magnets are also both polarized in the same direction. This doesn't cause an out of phase effect because the strings do not cross talk on the bass. This reinforces the magnetic field versus cancelling if they were opposite poles....N and S attracting....essentially partially shorting out the magnetic field.

Welcome to the RRF!

Any chance you can get some inductance and capacitance measurements of the windings?

brantleyrewinds wrote:I just had another one of these in for rewind. The Low Z circuit is an initial winding of .375k on each coil with 42 gauge wire for a total output of .75k. Then a second winding of 42 gauge is added to 3.75k for the regular circuit of 7.5k. The coils are in series. What you wind up with is two humbuckers in one pickup. One humbucker inside the other. The magnets are also both polarized in the same direction. This doesn't cause an out of phase effect because the strings do not cross talk on the bass. This reinforces the magnetic field versus cancelling if they were opposite poles....N and S attracting....essentially partially shorting out the magnetic field.

Sorry, but RIC has never used anything but 44AWG wire. And the correct term is DC resistance, not "output." You are correct that the interleaved windings result in a "double humbucker."

I do correct my earlier comment; I must have gotten the edge of the magnet instead of the meat of the magnet: yes, the magnets seem to be in the same orientation, and yes, this does not cause phasing because the strings do not cross both magnetic fields at the same time, as they do on an HB-1.

If your rewind person used 42AWG wire, he rewound it wrong.

I sold my extra 4002 interleaved pickup to Cassius987. He has experimented with it extensively, in all wiring configurations. Search the threads and you will find his posts, along with his dialog with Mr. JH about various aspects of the pickup.

Yes, it was wound with Min-Nom 42 polynylon....definitely a departure from the standard 44. Unfortunately, I have already shipped it back to the customer and I didn't take the inductance or capacitance readings.
I'm being crushed by rewinds at the moment and I'm trying to keep my 5 day turn time in place...

Sorry, but RIC has never used anything but 44AWG wire.
Sorry you are wrong...it was 42. I know how to measure winding wire to determine the gauge...I've only been doing this for 18 years.

And the correct term is DC resistance, not "output."
I know......

You are correct that the interleaved windings result in a "double humbucker."
Yes, I am...


I do correct my earlier comment; I must have gotten the edge of the magnet instead of the meat of the magnet: yes, the magnets seem to be in the same orientation, and yes, this does not cause phasing because the strings do not cross both magnetic fields at the same time, as they do on an HB-1.

If your rewind person used 42AWG wire, he rewound it wrong.
I'm the "rewind person"...and I did it correctly. I've been doing it correctly ever since I started at Lindy Fralin's in 1996.

Brantley, Mr. JH himself says RIC has only used 44 AWG wire. This is from the man himself. Don't argue with me -- address it to the man himself. If you want to rewind RIC pickups, then consult RIC before doing so, so the customer gets what he is expecting. Don't make excuses about the rest of your business on the forum.

now, now, boys... let's keep this friendly.

Dane, that is an important aspect in this story!

aceonbass wrote:It's likely that when most 4002 pickups were originally made, JH was not even working at RIC. As most know, he and Cindalee didn't buy the company till around 1984, after most if not all 4002's were made. I think it's therefor possible that Mr.Brantley is correct. I mean, he actually had the pickup in his hands, and apparently knew that Ricks were always wired with 44g wire.

Dane, you may be right. I will defer, because I'm not going to drill the rivets on my 4002 pickups just to prove or disprove the point. I do know that after what I saw posted above, and the admissions of not doing the proper QC on the customer's rewinds, I will not be doing business with Mr. Brantley.