The Jam - Going Underground

[360girl]

I kind of wonder if Paul didn't just basically take over the band, in the last year or two of its existence, dictating the stylistic direction it was taking musically. If you listen to a lot of The Jam's late material, it's very similar sounding to what Style Council did IMO. I'm not a big fan of it - it sounds too much like soul music for my tastes.

I find that a bit odd.
The whole foundation of groups like The Jam, The Who, The Beatles and the Stones is based on Soul and RnB.
The Jam's early set list from around 1976 contained as many soul/motown covers as it did original songs. As usual with these sorts of bands, the soul influence just manifests itself more within the bands sound as they become better writers and players.
Foxton was just as big a motown fan as Weller, even from the early days. I'm sure he was more than happy to go with the soul direction.
Buckler likes French Polishing and hitting things badly out of time.

Perhaps, but like the Beatles, The Who, the Stones, etc., The Jam's covers did not sound that much like straight ahead soul and R&B. I used to play in a band, that did The Jam's version of "Midnight Hour." IMO, while you can hear the bare bones of the original Booker T & The MGs version, it's not a close copy of the song. It's faster, it's louder, and just plain more aggressive sounding. Also, is it necessary for a band that comes from these roots, to get closer to slavishly copying that style of music, as they become more able musicians? IMO, no. There is such a thing as having your own sound. That's like saying that a player who was totally into shredders (such as I was for a while in the late 80s), will eventually start sounding like Satriani, as they grow chops wise (I got sick of shred years ago). Players do grow beyond their musical roots/influences.

Bucker was a basic drummer at best, but while Foxton is no Geddy Lee, or Chris Squire, he's certainly not as limited as say a hairband bassist like Nikki Sixx of Motley Crue.

[scotty]

If Weller kept The Jam going and progressed through the 80s in Britain he would be a laughing stock.Especially if eye liner was involved


Im glad he disbanded The Jam the TSC were far better..... Here is a wee bit of inside info Did you know Paul Weller wrote The Paris Match about Bruce foxtons mullet Its true!

[fireglo67]

Nice post Scotty.

The Style Council were actually better than The Jam, The Beatles, Who, and Rolling Stones put together.

History will prove me right.

[paologregorio]

Wow, such passion over Mr. Weller's career! Nice topic

I loved the Jam, and had went back and forth over the Style Council, alternately loving them and being annoyed by them. Sometimes my friends and I thought (back in the day) that The Jam should've brought Mick Talbot into the band and kept going;

I think you're right 360 girl, a lot of late Jam sounds like material the Style Council did, but with a bit more grit, which I always thought some of the Style Council material lacked. Then again, maybe that's part of why Weller wanted a whole new band. The Style Council had their own vibe, and having a different rhythm section altogether was part of that. In retrospect like the Style Council more than I did at the time, though I still love the Jam more. We can see that Weller's rediscovered the "grit" he had back in the Jam days in his more recent material-last ten years or so, after being on a long soul r&b streak into the 90s with his post-SC material.

A friend of mine and I actually took turns dozing off when we went to see Weller on a solo tour in the 90s at the Pantages Theatre in Los Angeles; we weren't really into most of the lengthy soul/r&b numbers he was playing that night. We ended up leaving early because neither one of us could stay awake. No joke.would like to see him on his next tour through here though. Sorry I missed him a few months back when he was in town.

[scotty]

See this thread is coming down to personal tastes and thats what Forums are all about
Whilst Paul didnt have a good experince with the PWM (Paul weller movement) I can honestly say that when i saw the PWM a few times the first time i did there was 30 in the audience( i think it was Glasgow Student union) this was the most amazing ive seen Weller perform.A wild atmosphere fueled with Jam,TSC and solo material that was truly outstanding.Yeah Weller isnt going to be as good as he was when he was young but then again who is? Watching The Who perform My Generation now is like watching Weller sing Town Called malice its there but the feelings not the same.......

the most important thing is,Is that it happened and we all at some point connected to the music.Some people say music and songs can be timeless but that is not so. I watched Blondie doing Heart of glass the other year and cringed the same applies through the board i suppose...

many years ago i wished Weller would do more Jam songs on his Set list now i wish he would not, they should lie in time where they belong.
EDIT: Then again who the H*ll im i to suggest to Weller what to play and what not to?

[JM82]

I really like Rick's drumming (must be in the minority? ). It's refreshing to listen to when most drumming you hear on records from the last ten years has been quantised to within an inch of it's life in Pro Tools.

[paologregorio]

I really like Rick's drumming (must be in the minority? ). It's refreshing to listen to when most drumming you hear on records from the last ten years has been quantised to within an inch of it's life in Pro Tools.

I like Buckler's drumming as well, though Whitey has his own appealing style. I think Whitey's has grown even more tasteful over the years.

Scott-I liked PW the first time I saw him solo when he did a mix of Jam, SC, and solo material. The second time I aw him was the Wild Wood tour. IIRC, at the time there were only about 3 songs I liked on that one. I'd like to see him now-really like his new stuff. Come to think of it, I'd probably like Wild Wood era material more now as well. . .

[jamfanman]

lots of differing opinions. For my two pence worth, loved the Jam as a threesome all played an important role especially live, Style council and solo stuff necessary development that enhanced Paul's earlier writings and developed him as UK premier songwriter. All have become timeless classics for differing reason. Incidentally worst Weller gig I saw was in London mid ninetees when Johnathon Ross (UK chat show host for USA readers) came on stage to sing Town Called Malice! I promptly left and felt thoroughly depressed at how disrespected it made me feel.
Best Jam Gig Rainbow theatre May 1979. Loved Wildwood, Stanley Road and getting to like Wake up the nation.

[wints]

Nice post Scotty.

The Style Council were actually better than The Jam, The Beatles, Who, and Rolling Stones put together.

History will prove me right.

Not too sure about that one Rob!

Loved TSC at the time. Weller discovered his soul and his music improved greatly as a result. His best period by far imo...

Tim, I was at that May '79 show at the Rainbow too. Hung around after the gig inside as I waited for the inch deep of recycled beer in the Gents to recede so one could relieve oneself before making it back to the minibus, and they shut the doors and the band came out to sign autographs for the 50 or so left in the foyer. My school friends couldn't believe it when I turned up a half hour later with the proof!

[paologregorio]

Funny Weller quip from the first time I saw him; Morrissey had recently covered the Jam's "That's Entertainment" and Weller introduced the song with "this is an old Smiths cover"

Going Underground is one catchy number, come to think of it; having tackled "The Modern World", "In the City" , and now "Eton Rifles" at the local jams, we'll have to try this one next.

[Trav]

I've never known what all the fuss is about, The Jam, TSC, Weller all vastly over rated - they did have some nice guitars though!

[scotty]

The attachment MICK JAM R22 (Small).JPG is no longer available

I've never known what all the fuss is about, The Jam, TSC, Weller all vastly over rated - they did have some nice guitars though!

yeah i always liked Wellers Rapier 22

While we are at it does any keen eyes know what model this is?

[opticnerve]

Huh...strange looking beast! I have no idea what that could be.

[jamfanman]

"Hung around after the gig inside as I waited for the inch deep of recycled beer in the Gents to recede so one could relieve oneself before making it back to the minibus, and they shut the doors and the band came out to sign autographs for the 50 or so left in the foyer"

Hi Andrew,
same experience also at the rainbow (December either 79 or 80), met the band in similar lock-in circumstances though this was by the stage. Still have the autographs signed on the back of an empty cigar packet. Best memories were of butterfly collector, what an aggressive ballad, and the constant stream of chairs being slung into the orchestra pit. later gigs there had the seating removed to save us the trouble! Was it only 30 years ago?

[godber]

MICK JAM R22 (Small).JPG

I've never known what all the fuss is about, The Jam, TSC, Weller all vastly over rated - they did have some nice guitars though!

yeah i always liked Wellers Rapier 22

The Watkins Rapier 22 sure made him a nasty boy!