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Re: Wanting more output = different pickups..?? Solutions please
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:52 pm
by coolhandjjl
iiipopes wrote:....Another thing is strings: nickel TI's have the least magnetic properties; stainless steel Rotosounds have the most, with some variation in between depending on brand and gauge. The more magnetically interactive the string, the more output.....
Hmmmm...I recently put TI Flats on my 1993 4003s with a 1/2" positioned Toaster and a RIHS. Never noticed any output issues. In fact, this bass can really roar. Very similar in output to my stock 2009 4003 with DR Fat Beams.
Re: Wanting more output = different pickups..?? Solutions please
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:39 pm
by iiipopes
coolhandjjl wrote:iiipopes wrote:....Another thing is strings: nickel TI's have the least magnetic properties; stainless steel Rotosounds have the most, with some variation in between depending on brand and gauge. The more magnetically interactive the string, the more output.....
Hmmmm...I recently put TI Flats on my 1993 4003s with a 1/2" positioned Toaster and a RIHS. Never noticed any output issues. In fact, this bass can really roar. Very similar in output to my stock 2009 4003 with DR Fat Beams.
It's not the biggest difference. Yes, you'll get more change in output from lowering or raising a pickup two full turns of the screws. But it's still there, nonetheless.
Re: Wanting more output = different pickups..?? Solutions please
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:35 pm
by leftybass
iiipopes wrote:More output? With what tone? There's always the HB-1 option, but on a 4001, the baseplate is not drilled for installation like a new 4003 is, so it would be more involved, and such. I'm almost positive that if you replace the entire pickup units, that they will screw in with the existing hardware, and only involve unsoldering the hot and ground at the point they go to the selector switch, so it doesn't involve much that can't be reversed and the original pickups reinstalled if that is desired.
Where do you have the pregain set on your amp? If at any point you get distortion in turning up the pregain, then you have enough pickup output, and it is an amplifier issue in the matching of the pregain and postgain (master volume) stages, not a pickup issue.
Another thing is strings: nickel TI's have the least magnetic properties; stainless steel Rotosounds have the most, with some variation in between depending on brand and gauge. The more magnetically interactive the string, the more output.
And, how far are the pickups from the strings? Output varies as the square of the distance of the pickup from the strings, so adjusting the pickups just a little bit closer will make a significant difference in output.
As I recall, the '76 4001 I used to own never had any output issues. I'm with the above: take a meter and read the pickups. If they are not in the 8 to 9 kohm range, then they may need to be rewound.
I disagree with adding the magnet for this reason: the magnetic field will oversaturate the coil, dropping impedance even more, and cause a harsh tone, not necessarily more output.
Some good questions here (all responses have been very welcome, thanks to all...) but I want to answer some of these here...
My amp setup has not changed in 15+ years, only the cabinets from time to time. I own about 10 different basses at the moment, and I have owned a maximum of 4 different 4001s at one time. I always run the same amount of pre-amp gain and master volume gain, no effects, only slight compression.
I have already taken the time in the past to run all of my basses thru my rig as a comparison to each other in terms of output---I am just bringing this to the attention of the Forum now to discuss. My '79 simply doesn't have the output that the Fenders do, or the other 4001s I have owned or anything I own with passive electronics.
The pickup height is as close as I would want it without the strings touching the poles, and my perferred sound is roundwound, full volume and tone, ala Geddy or Squire.
Re: Wanting more output = different pickups..?? Solutions please
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:11 pm
by paologregorio
rickenbrother wrote:paologregorio wrote:If there is enough clearance inside the p/up routs underneath the p/up, you could also attach a ceramic bar magnet under each p/up for a hotter output; no modification required; the magnet will just stick to the existing magnet on the underside of the magnet. I've done this for the bridge p/up on a couple of my Ricks, with great success.
Info like this is why we keep you around!
Got a source for the magnets?
http://www.magnetsource.com/
http://www.magnetichold.net
You may also be able to find what you need at Michael's Art supply or a similar arts/crafts store, IIRC.
Re: Wanting more output = different pickups..?? Solutions please
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:15 am
by iiipopes
John, it could be that the magnet is not making good contact with the polepieces on the bottom of the flatwork. Unless there is a good clean mechanical fit of the magnet to the poles, you will also lose output that way. It could be a film of adhesive, poles not installed flush with the flatwork, a cracked magnet, etc. I cracked a magnet on a high gain, and its output was down until I removed it, cleaned everything up as good as possible, and reinstalled it. It's still down a little bit, but ironically, it better matches the bridge pickup in my 360-12WB now.
The problem with diagnosing if this is an issue is that the magnet is so brittle, it could completely crack out. If it does, a solid bar magnet off certain ceramic fake Strat pickups can make a good temporary replacement if you can't get one from RIC.