Got to try Rick370/12RM LE at Sam Ash in NYC!

[wordsonyou]

the price at the sam ash was very rich but it was in fabulous condition...and it was there for the playing!

[jps]

...I wasn't as impressed with the sound. It seemed a bit dark / muddy / dull in all the selector positions. I was playing through a Fender Princeton Reverb with the treble full up...

That should be really bright! I have a Celestion G12M-70 in my Princeton Reverb Amp and it would be pretty piercing with the treble control dimed. The one you tried probably still has a 10" speaker in it, right?

[wordsonyou]

Does sam ash negotiate?

[doctorwho]

... Question for you: on the RM model, does the "bottom" selector position also leave the middle PU active on the RM model? If so... then that means I was hearing bridge + middle PUs on full? That would explain why I heard more thickness in tone than I'm used to. ...

IIRC, the pickup selector switch works this way: up, neck and middle pickups; center, all three pickups; down, bridge pickup. I will confirm this.

BTW, I use the third position on the tone circuit selector switch nearly all of the time. As I have stated before, I hardly use the compressor part of the circuit .

[stsang]

Does sam ash negotiate?

I think so. The department manager mentioned that possibility. So that sounded promising.

[stsang]

...I wasn't as impressed with the sound. It seemed a bit dark / muddy / dull in all the selector positions. I was playing through a Fender Princeton Reverb with the treble full up...

That should be really bright! I have a Celestion G12M-70 in my Princeton Reverb Amp and it would be pretty piercing with the treble control dimed. The one you tried probably still has a 10" speaker in it, right?

Hi, I can't quite recall what speaker was in the amp. It was a pretty small cabinet, so it may have had the 10" speaker.

I should point out that my comments about the RM guitar's sound were all in the context of "compared to the 2002 360/12 I currently have". My wife was with me at the time and even she noticed the difference (and she has no interest in guitars but she does enjoy listening to Byrds/McGuinn). My Ric is as bright/clean as I can possibly make it - it has scatterwound pickups, 0.0047uF capacitor inline, TI flats. Pretty much any other guitar is at best going to sound "as bright" as mine. I also have a set of the pre-scatterwound (11K ohm) toasters, and I find them to be noticeably darker/thicker sounding. But even then you can play around with the volume and tone knobs on the guitar and boost the treble and presence on the amp a touch to get something very close to the scatterwound PU sound. I occasionally put the pre-scatterwounds back on just to get more of the R.E.M. / Smiths vibe.

In the store, some guy behind me was playing single-note blues licks on a Gibson 335 (totally ruining my 60s high-life vibe) and he sounded really, really dark, compared to the sound I was getting. So let me correct myself - the RM model sounded bright & jangly (compared to any other guitar in the store) but not as bright & jangly as what I'm used to with my Ric. IIRC the RM model I played had roundwounds, and it has the pre-scatterwound pickups. So that should automatically back down the clean/bright factor a notch or two.

I was very impressed with the build quality of the RM. The guitar felt very substantial. Does anyone know if Ric used a thicker top and base for these models? With all these postings, I really have an itch now to head back to the store to try it out again.

[sloop_john_b]

Better act quickly. Might head there on my lunch break.

[BuddyDog]

Better act quickly. Might head there on my lunch break.

...and so goes the Great Gear Wager of 2012

[Folkie]

Wait a minute, there, Simon. What's this 0.0047uF capacitor? How does it work and what does it do for the guitar's tone? I, too, like loads of treble, hence the scatterwounds and TI Flats on my 360, not to mention my JB2, which remains on the JangleBoost setting most of the time. Am I missing out on part of the Holy Grail?

Robert

[stsang]

Wait a minute, there, Simon. What's this 0.0047uF capacitor? How does it work and what does it do for the guitar's tone? I, too, like loads of treble, hence the scatterwounds and TI Flats on my 360, not to mention my JB2, which remains on the JangleBoost setting most of the time. Am I missing out on part of the Holy Grail?

Robert

I hope I didn't open up a can of worms with this discussion! Then again, if you didn't already know about this, you may find it interesting...

If you Google around, you'll find alot of info on this topic (and it's not just a Rickenbacker thing). Here's a link to a Rickenbacker Forum thread from 2008: http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewt ... 0.0047+cap. The purpose of the capacitor is explained quite clearly on this page http://www.rickresource.com/rrp/ricelectronics.html - check out the section on Component Values.

If you look at the circuit schematic for the 360 guitar on the Rickenbacker website http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19502.pdf you'll see that the "Treble Volume" has a C3 capacitor wired inline to the control. There is a comment that this capacitor is "shunted" (i.e. replaced with a piece of wire) on newer models. C3 is a 0.0047uF (also known as 4.7nF) capacitor that reduces the bass/mids of the signal coming from the bridge pickup but leaves the treble intact. It also introduces a 90 degree electrical phase shift above the filter frequency that subtly increases the jangle/shimmer on the signal particularly when you blend it with the neck pickup. It also reduces the overall output of the pickup - some folks complain it makes their 6-strings sound too thin, but it works really well on 12-strings. 60s Rics all had this capacitor and it was phased out at some point in the 1970s or 1980s as part of a drive to increase the output of the guitars.

RRF user iiipopes is really the expert on this topic. I find that with this capacitor in place, you get the "ultimate" clean jangle. The difference is subtle but definitely noticeable (even my wife notices it and she prefers the sound with the cap inline). I wouldn't recommend trying this on any guitar that is still under warranty obviously as it involves messing around with the circuit though you could buy a new circuit harness and mess around with that instead. I ended up installing not just the cap, but replacing the treble volume pot with a push-pull pot so that I can easily switch between having the cap inline and bypassed. I got these parts from Chris Clayton at Pick of the Ricks.

Hope that helps without opening up a crazy can of worms!

[jps]

Better act quickly. Might head there on my lunch break.

...and so goes the Great Gear Wager of 2012

It might be 2013 in New York, already. Is someone messing with the space/time continuum? JASON!!!!!

[Folkie]

Simon,

Thanks so much for the explanation. I'd heard about this mod, but the links you gave me really clarified things. With my new Vox AC15 especially, I'm getting plenty of treble right now from both my 12'ers. But I really do wish Chris Clayton had told me about the capacitor option when I ordered my 360/12 with toasters last year, that is, if this is a mod he would have been willing to do. Am I correct that you did the rewiring yourself, Simon? Is there a point of treble overkill?

Robert

[stsang]

Simon,

Thanks so much for the explanation. I'd heard about this mod, but the links you gave me really clarified things. With my new Vox AC15 especially, I'm getting plenty of treble right now from both my 12'ers. But I really do wish Chris Clayton had told me about the capacitor option when I ordered my 360/12 with toasters last year, that is, if this is a mod he would have been willing to do. Am I correct that you did the rewiring yourself, Simon? Is there a point of treble overkill?

Robert

Hi Robert,

Yes, I DIY'd the wiring myself. Might sound weird, but I get a lot of satisfaction from doing it. I learn alot about the guitar in the process. I really don't know if this is a service that Chris provides. If you're handy with a soldering iron, this is a really easy job.

No - you can never have too much treble. But it's about more than the quantity. A Fender Stratocaster or Telecaster can also be incredibly bright. It's about quality, and you can't beat a Ric for that. The signature Ric bright jangle sounds so sweet!

All the best.

[Folkie]

No - you can never have too much treble. But it's about more than the quantity. A Fender Stratocaster or Telecaster can also be incredibly bright. It's about quality, and you can't beat a Ric for that. The signature Ric bright jangle sounds so sweet!

+ 1

[doctorwho]

... IIRC, the pickup selector switch works this way: up, neck and middle pickups; center, all three pickups; down, bridge pickup. I will confirm this. ...

Interesting update: The middle pick-up volume control works in all selector switch positions , meaning that one can blend as much of the middle pickup into the neck or bridge pickup alone as one wants. This is very, very cool!