Page 2 of 3
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:54 am
by iiipopes
Speaking of adapting, I don't think anybody has really talked about the fundamental aspect of the left hand: keep the fingernails trimmed and manicured properly, relax the hand into the proper "C" shape so just the right point of the fingerprint where it curves from the tip of the finger to the pad is on the strings, keep the thumb in the proper position in the back of the neck instead of the "fencepost grab," relax the wrist to let it flex so the fingers can do their job, etc.
When I"ve been sloppy on other instrument necks and come back to my Rick, the first thing I have to do is refocus.
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:38 pm
by stsang
iiipopes wrote:When I"ve been sloppy on other instrument necks and come back to my Rick, the first thing I have to do is refocus.
+1 on that. IMHO Rics (especially 12-strings) demand more from their players but they reward the effort.
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:58 pm
by Folkie
iiipopes wrote:Speaking of adapting, I don't think anybody has really talked about the fundamental aspect of the left hand: keep the fingernails trimmed and manicured properly, relax the hand into the proper "C" shape so just the right point of the fingerprint where it curves from the tip of the finger to the pad is on the strings, keep the thumb in the proper position in the back of the neck instead of the "fencepost grab," relax the wrist to let it flex so the fingers can do their job, etc.
When I"ve been sloppy on other instrument necks and come back to my Rick, the first thing I have to do is refocus.
I think Scott's advice is excellent, although, aside from keeping my nails groomed, I haven't had to make any special adjustments to the Rickenbacker necks. I would say my hands are medium-size, and I've just never had any problem playing open chord voicings. Even on my 1991 330/12, which has really wide pairs, I've never had any issues playing an open C-chord or anything else. The only difficulty I've had was in playing a barred F-chord near the nut, because my index finger couldn't cleanly hold down those four unison strings, and there was a great deal of buzz and rattle. Once my tech lowered the nut grooves a little, the problem disappeared.
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:52 am
by gtburge1
I have had no big problem with my 360/12 and 370/12 i have followed Roger McGwinn's playing tips.
And have large hands
GTB
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:27 pm
by teb
You're lucky. I even use the McGuinn chord formations on my Martin twelve and could use some of them on my Takamine twelves before that (2" nut width).
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:03 pm
by drumbob
Thanks, Ron. I've acclimated to the narrow width, but I'll have my tech give me a price.
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:04 am
by blue330
Well, all these tidbits are useful and true but it still seems to me that these necks should be wider. I'm sure somebody will tell me that tooling up for this would cost a billion dollars, but, come on... I have small hands and I can deal with these 12 strings but something isn't quite right when playing a C chord makes you wonder if you need to get your fingers sharpened!
Seriously, why don't they offer the 660-type neck on the hollowbodies? I'd buy one.
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:29 am
by sloop_john_b
blue330 wrote:
Seriously, why don't they offer the 660-type neck on the hollowbodies? I'd buy one.
They do - if you're The Edge.
I don't mind so much because I REALLY like the 660/12, but I am rather surprised that the wider neck hasn't made it onto at least one production hollowbody 12 yet.
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:21 am
by casino66
My Rick 620/12 was impossible to play due to the horrible string spacing.
I just got it back from Mark Arnquist who among other things made a new nut
with much tighter string spacing.. Very glad I sent it to him, it is a huge improvement.
That said, I'm still curious about Roger McGuinn's modified fingering for 12 string.
Looks like he plays 'A' chords with two fingers.. can't tell if he is fingering all 3 strings
or just not bothering with the B string.
before
after
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:27 am
by teb
They're chords like Em with just one finger covering both pairs, E major or Am with two fingers (one covering the lower two pairs) and A major with two fingers covering three pairs. The difficult chords tend to be those like a C chord, where you have to use three fingers, but they have to cover single pairs without damping those around them.
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:28 pm
by casino66
teb wrote:They're chords like Em with just one finger covering both pairs, E major or Am with two fingers (one covering the lower two pairs) and A major with two fingers covering three pairs. The difficult chords tend to be those like a C chord, where you have to use three fingers, but they have to cover single pairs without damping those around them.
Thanks Todd, that makes sense..
Some of these are helpful, though with the new Arnquist nut spacing
I find I don't have to really alter my fingering to much..
though I do like to play an open A major chord with my middle,ring and pinky.
Find it good for going between the A and the Asus4, Asus2 positions.
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:29 am
by jimk
casino66 wrote:teb wrote:They're chords like Em with just one finger covering both pairs, E major or Am with two fingers (one covering the lower two pairs) and A major with two fingers covering three pairs. The difficult chords tend to be those like a C chord, where you have to use three fingers, but they have to cover single pairs without damping those around them.
Thanks Todd, that makes sense..
Some of these are helpful, though with the new Arnquist nut spacing
I find I don't have to really alter my fingering to much..
though I do like to play an open A major chord with my middle,ring and pinky.
Find it good for going between the A and the Asus4, Asus2 positions.
That right there is the opening riff to "Feel A Whole Lot Better When You're Gone."
JimK
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:10 am
by rkbsound
blue330 wrote:Well, all these tidbits are useful and true but it still seems to me that these necks should be wider. I'm sure somebody will tell me that tooling up for this would cost a billion dollars, but, come on... I have small hands and I can deal with these 12 strings but something isn't quite right when playing a C chord makes you wonder if you need to get your fingers sharpened!
Seriously, why don't they offer the 660-type neck on the hollowbodies? I'd buy one.
Well perhaps this could be the Mitch Easter sig model! I dont have a Rick 12 yet, but I'd buy one, too. Seems like it could be a good enough reason for RIC to offer a new model that could be easy to produce using off the shelf stock. Give the first one to Mitch and I will buy the second. Of course, AZ will have to be a color option. Kissing fish optional...include in case candy.
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:44 pm
by J1854Me
RonLovesRic12strings wrote:This is a recommendation to anyone who cannot enjoy playing their Rick 330, 360 or 620 12 strings because of crowded string pairs.
I encourage anyone having trouble fingering chords (especially on the first few frets) to take their guitar to a competent luthier and have a custom bone nut made to slightly increase the distance between string pairs. You'll be pleasantly surprised how just a scosh more spacing will improve playability. An added benefit of a bone nut is better note definition and better sustain (at least to my ears).
I just had a custom bone nut fabricated, TI flatwounds installed, and a setup on my 1997 360/12 V64, and I couldn't be more pleased with the results.
So, please, don't sell your Rick 12 because of that "damned narrow neck". IMHO, no other electric 12 string comes close to the jangle of a Rickenbacker.
Wow -- wish I had followed this route some dozen or so years ago, when I sold my RM 370/12 for that very reason!!
A great guitar, with THE sound, but after struggling with it for a number of years, I elected to sell it and move on. Now I have a C63, but it's not the same as the RM!
Fred
Re: Don't give up on your RICK 12's narrow neck width
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:34 pm
by Folkie
RonLovesRic12strings wrote:This is a recommendation to anyone who cannot enjoy playing their Rick 330, 360 or 620 12 strings because of crowded string pairs.
I encourage anyone having trouble fingering chords (especially on the first few frets) to take their guitar to a competent luthier and have a custom bone nut made to slightly increase the distance between string pairs. You'll be pleasantly surprised how just a scosh more spacing will improve playability. An added benefit of a bone nut is better note definition and better sustain (at least to my ears).
I just had a custom bone nut fabricated, TI flatwounds installed, and a setup on my 1997 360/12 V64, and I couldn't be more pleased with the results.
So, please, don't sell your Rick 12 because of that "damned narrow neck". IMHO, no other electric 12 string comes close to the jangle of a Rickenbacker.
Ron,
Just out of curiosity, when you had the nut replaced on your 360/12 V64, did your tech replace and renotch the bridge?
Robert