jps wrote:The best musicians can take any instrument and make it work for whatever they happen to be playing; in the the end, Jaco was right.
The best musicians use the right tools for the right job regardless of appearances or concerns about convincing themselves that their favorite instrument is a jack-of-all-trades. Or like my father says, "jack-of-all-trades, master of none".
You can play any kind of music on any kind of guitar and i've said that before, but there are situations where one instrument is better suited for the task than another.
I am not disputing that there are ideal instruments for a particular styles/genres of music but if you were handed a Gretsch Streamliner, for example, and you had to play some Hendrix or Iron Maiden on it in front of a auditorium full of rabid fans of said music, could you make it work?
jps wrote:I am not disputing that there are ideal instruments for a particular styles/genres of music but if you were handed a Gretsch Streamliner, for example, and you had to play some Hendrix or Iron Maiden on it in front of a auditorium full of rabid fans of said music, could you make it work?
Absolutely, and i'm not trying to argure that you couldn't. A well-made guitar is a well-made guitar.
Matthew seemed to scoff at the very idea of certain guitars being better at certain genres and I was replying to his posts, but I am a strong believer in the idea that any guitar is equally as versatile as the person playing it.
Grey wrote:I am a strong believer in the idea that any guitar is equally as versatile as the person playing it.
Not in every situation. If I'm playing in a metalcore band and I plug a Squier Strat with 3 single coils into my Triple Rec, it's going to be a thin, squealing mess and there is little that even a very good player can do about that.
I believe some guitars really are better for some things than others, and Leo Fender got a heck of a lot of things right for a wide variety of styles (whether he realized it at the time), but I also feel we put a blindfold on ourselves when we say, "X guitar is good for Y, while A guitar is better for B." Every generation or so somebody comes along and provides a convincing counterpoint to any given one of these arguments and I think it should make us be much more careful about saying "You can't slap a Ric," or whatever other misinformed generalization. I don't know how many times I've heard you aren't supposed to use a Ric bass for jazz on other forums when not only have I done it without getting any "Where's that upright or Fender?"-esque complaints, but Chris Brubeck and Stanley Clarke both beat me to it and I don't think anyone could argue with what they did and continue to do (in Brubeck's case).
I once thought it was physically impossible for a Hofner bass to sound like anything other than mud until I saw Chris Wood tear up the Ogden in Denver using one for an extended psycho-rock type of solo. I never, ever thought a Hofner could be made to sound like that (or be played with such a high level of facility) before that night but he forever changed my mind on the subject.
I also remember how I chased after the popular opinion when I started out, especially as far as what bass I should play. I went through a bunch of Leo-designed basses before finding a Ric and feeling "at home" after years of being somewhat in limbo with the others. No one was telling me to go get a Ric, but when I did it just worked for me, and has since.
Also John, I'm not sure what you meant about the 620 not doing Hinson any favors... sounded okay to me? I guess some of his shredding was a bit wonky if we're being nitpicky about it but I'm not into that style much anyway.
Folks that Hendrix solo is really not that horrible when compared to the dull bassman, and the drummer that is extrememly dull and falling to sleep also.
It's really not that bad when all the crowd is screaming and carrying on. Now I have seem lots of folks totall destroy some songs on the stage, and if you were there too, you would know the definition of "really, really bad"
My 2c worth,
Craig
2007 Guild F412 Blond 2011 Rickenbacker 360/12 Maple
idealassets wrote:Folks that Hendrix solo is really not that horrible when compared to the dull bassman, and the drummer that is extrememly dull and falling to sleep also.
It's really not that bad when all the crowd is screaming and carrying on. Now I have seem lots of folks totall destroy some songs on the stage, and if you were there too, you would know the definition of "really, really bad"
My 2c worth,
Craig
Yeah, and I have seen crowds go crazy for a talentless dipshit DJ with a MacBook. The crowd response really isn't not relevant to this discussion in any way. Same goes for the quality of the band.
cassius987 wrote:Also John, I'm not sure what you meant about the 620 not doing Hinson any favors... sounded okay to me? I guess some of his shredding was a bit wonky if we're being nitpicky about it but I'm not into that style much anyway.
Missed this Josh...what I'm hearing in the video is a really noticeable quick decay on the bends that his (good) vibrato can't really save. This is due to several factors, mainly the really small frets coupled with a heavily lacquered fretboard and a weak bridge. Not uncommon on these, and one of the main reasons why people don't look at them as lead guitars.
Check out Unknown doing Manic Depression here, on his signature Reverend (sort of a Tele-thing with P-90's):
I'm hearing a far more fluid vibrato, more effortless bends, and a more suitable tone for what he's doing (I found the 620 a little buzzy). Construction aside - those juicy P-90's just make him have to work less.
Of course, "lead" could mean a lot of things. When people say that Ricks can't do lead, they're talking about Clapton/Hendrix type stuff and beyond. Big bends, lots of sustain, fat tone. I'm sure an adept Joe Pass-esque player would have no problem doing their thing on a Rick, since bending is out of the equation. Perhaps even some old school speedy chicken pickers.
I'm able to squeeze a touch more sustain out of my '68 330 because it has taller fretwire and only a very light matte finish on the fretboard, but it's still a battle. It just doesn't come close to my Les Paul or (souped up) Jazzmaster. I'm gonna be trying a new bridge (Mastery) soon as an attempt to coax yet more sustain out of the old girl.
Interesting stuff John, thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I don't think of myself as a guitarist anymore so I'm in no position to argue or even have an opinion. I think it is worth pointing out, for whatever it's worth, both videos appear to be shot by people using different video cameras in different locations of different venues... lots of variables.
cassius987 wrote: I think it is worth pointing out, for whatever it's worth, both videos appear to be shot by people using different video cameras in different locations of different venues... lots of variables.
I am definitely aware of this, and thus, it's kind of pointless to compare tones. But that typical Rick choked-bend effect is absolutely unmistakable to me and can't possibly be an artifact of poor quality footage.
sloop_john_b wrote:I'm gonna be trying a new bridge (Mastery) soon as an attempt to coax yet more sustain out of the old girl.
If I translate this correctly, you're saying, in short, it's not that one can not do leads on Ricks, but, if you want that sound some big names have had with lots of sustain, it's not the first choice to pick. What about the 650 series?
'67 Fender Coronado II CAB * '17 1963 ES-335 PB * currently rickless
Electrostring wrote:If I translate this correctly, you're saying, in short, it's not that one can not do leads on Ricks, but, if you want that sound some big names have had with lots of sustain, it's not the first choice to pick. What about the 650 series?
That's right. It's been a while since I played a 650, but they've got high output (albeit dark) pickups, a wide fretboard, and a much better bridge. They're clearly geared towards players and it delivers that sustain in spades.
Electrostring wrote:If I translate this correctly, you're saying, in short, it's not that one can not do leads on Ricks, but, if you want that sound some big names have had with lots of sustain, it's not the first choice to pick. What about the 650 series?
That's right. It's been a while since I played a 650, but they've got high output (albeit dark) pickups, a wide fretboard, and a much better bridge. They're clearly geared towards players and it delivers that sustain in spades.
You should try rewiring the pickups parallel out-of-phase (the humbucking version of parallel), instead of series out-of-phase as they come stock... I like it on a bass anyway.
jps wrote:
The best musicians can take any instrument and make it work for whatever they happen to be playing; in the the end, Jaco was right.
I couldn't agree more. My belief is the first source of tone is your hands.
That said, a few years back I used to have a 660. My friend, a hard rockin' usually Les Paul player type of guy picked it up. It didn't sound like much. he made a minor pickup adjustment and the thing was screamin'. pro quality player, on a professional grade instrument. It's gonna sound good.
