Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

badeggs wrote:Aw come on, guys! All I hear is "cut it" for years and I finally do it, and now you tell me about comb-filtering and moving the cap to the other pickup...what the hell!? I'm lost all over again...

No more soldering, I'm not opening it up again anytime soon!

Why didn't you fit a Vintage push-pull switch to give you the best of both worlds?

IMHO the cap- in is the "true" Ric sound. Without the cap is good but not the same but it does open up the bass to more areas and tone choices and good on songs where the traditional Ric sound doesn't quite work.

Baker69 wrote:Why didn't you fit a Vintage push-pull switch to give you the best of both worlds?

Because I didn't have one lying around! Seriously though, as useful as that would be to have (and I may still do it down the road), I'm such a stock geek that I'm loathe to take the old tone pot out and replace it, even though it would be useful...

I agree that the cap = the "true" sound, and like I said in the OP I've felt that way for years, and I do enjoy the sound of it (especially through a big amp with lots of bottom end). But that true sound was just too thin for recording direct, at least with the equipment I have (i.e. no $500 DI boxes here). Hence the cut...

I fitted a push pull switch on my '78 4001 and it made a huge difference, I agree with the sound being a bit thin with the cap in so I can understand your reasons for bridging it. I find the 4003 has a lot fatter sound even with the cap in, possibly due to the more powerful pickups they have plus maybe the chunkier neck has something to do with it as well?

Yeah, it's a bit of a wrench having to remove a component such as a tone pot from a vintage instrument, but I think it may be worth you fitting a switch eventually.

Baker69 wrote:I fitted a push pull switch on my '78 4001 and it made a huge difference, I agree with the sound being a bit thin with the cap in so I can understand your reasons for bridging it.

But, if you had your amp EQ'd to make the bass sound good with the cap in-circuit, than when you switched the cap out the bass would sound way too bottom heavy.

Yes, unfortunately that is the case and switching during songs (or during sets) without some adjustment to either the overall volume or some tone adjustment doesn't always work particularly well, if I do change it during a gig I normally overcome this to a degree by rolling off the treble pickup volume a bit.

What I do like on the 4003 though and with the cap out is to use the treble pickup on it's own.

The switch however does give you that freedom to do whole sets or gigs using one particular setting without having to take the pickguard off and solder / de-solder the bridging wire all the time.

To some "purists", removing a stock tone pot out of a '71 might be a tough call.
Though, removing the cap might be as well, yet it is less obvious.
Big difference between a '71 and a late 70s value wise as well.
"True" Rick sound is also debatable; the original 4000 did not have a cap....
But, it is all in the eye of the beholder; to each their own.

How many tones do you really need? I have two pickups and a 3 way switch; I nearly always just use the bridge pickup, and only use the switch for the mehmehmehmehmehemeh toggle switch wiggle effect. . . .

chefothefuture wrote: "True" Rick sound is also debatable; the original 4000 did not have a cap....

When you listen to early Marillion and Pete on his 4000, you would swear the cap was in there.

Also Mr Squire and Mr Lee, is the cap still there, I don't think so, which leads to What is the 4001 sound really.

Seans wrote:

chefothefuture wrote: "True" Rick sound is also debatable; the original 4000 did not have a cap....

When you listen to early Marillion and Pete on his 4000, you would swear the cap was in there.

Also Mr Squire and Mr Lee, is the cap still there, I don't think so, which leads to What is the 4001 sound really.

To me 'the true' 4001 sound is the neck pickup alone.
There's no other bass that sounds like that (that I know of).
About the cap: I always had serious trouble getting enough bass out of the bridge pu until I bypassed it.
IMHO a bass guitar is about bass, it now has a HS without cap, all of the high is still there, but accompanied by some low too.
I guess they took the definition of 'treble pu' a little too literally at Ric in the sixties. Or was it compensation for the flatwound strings of the time?

wim wrote:

Seans wrote:

chefothefuture wrote: "True" Rick sound is also debatable; the original 4000 did not have a cap....

When you listen to early Marillion and Pete on his 4000, you would swear the cap was in there.

Also Mr Squire and Mr Lee, is the cap still there, I don't think so, which leads to What is the 4001 sound really.

To me 'the true' 4001 sound is the neck pickup alone.
There's no other bass that sounds like that (that I know of).
About the cap: I always had serious trouble getting enough bass out of the bridge pu until I bypassed it.
IMHO a bass guitar is about bass, it now has a HS without cap, all of the high is still there, but accompanied by some low too.
I guess they took the definition of 'treble pu' a little too literally at Ric in the sixties. Or was it compensation for the flatwound strings of the time?

60's Toaster, there's nothing like it.

Thinking of another Icon, Macca and I don't think the cap bothered him too much.

The 4001's I owned I kept intact, not really sure why TBH....I suppose just to keep them 'stock'.

It did lead me back to a 'modern' 4003, though....just find the beefier tone/output works better for me in a modern performing/recording environment.

Whatever works for the owner and player is what's best!

wim wrote:

Seans wrote:

chefothefuture wrote: "True" Rick sound is also debatable; the original 4000 did not have a cap....

To me 'the true' 4001 sound is the neck pickup alone.
There's no other bass that sounds like that (that I know of).
About the cap: I always had serious trouble getting enough bass out of the bridge pu until I bypassed it.
IMHO a bass guitar is about bass, it now has a HS without cap, all of the high is still there, but accompanied by some low too.
I guess they took the definition of 'treble pu' a little too literally at Ric in the sixties. Or was it compensation for the flatwound strings of the time?

Correct, the treble pickup on it's own on a 4001 with the cap in is virtually unusable, but in conjunction with the neck pickup is the classic Ric 'clank'. I think I read on the Forum somewhere that the cap was introduced to cut the bass output to protect the speakers or circuitry on what was basically guitar amps that bass players had to use in the 60's before the advent of dedicated bass amplification.

I fitted a vintage switch on my 4001, once the cap was bypassed it gave it a totally different sound, very nice too but to my ears not the 'classic' Ric sound. The neck pickup solo'ed is another classic Ric sound, i.e. the Macca sound.

I too was a stock and no mods for my Ric..... Then well the day came and I was having cut out probs on my 77' 4001. Good friend John A. who lives just north of me in K-Zoo suggested the changing of my wire harness to a new 4003 harness with the push pull pot..... And man is like a new bass all over again. I put it off for soo long, and after the fact it was like why didn't i do that years before........ So congrats man on the big step cause i have been there too.

A horse shoe pickup with a cap on it is like going on a date with Rosamund Pike and her wearing a bag over her head....