Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

The straplocks I ordered from the boutique just arrived and they do fit my Blackstar and my '76 4001 (obvious in hindsight). Now off to Guitar Center to buy the Shaller set.

cjj wrote:Yes, they are 10-24, which is a non-metric size and may be hard to find in the UK.

The RIC part has metric threading. Unfortunately I don't know what it is except that it's the closest size to American 10-24.

This was intentional such that the metric thread would slightly cross thread against the American sized tapping in the wood to keep things tight. That and the fact that Schaller didn't have American threading available on their Swiss screw machines . . .

johnhall wrote: The RIC part has metric threading. Unfortunately I don't know what it is except that it's the closest size to American 10-24.

This was intentional such that the metric thread would slightly cross thread against the American sized tapping in the wood to keep things tight. That and the fact that Schaller didn't have American threading available on their Swiss screw machines . . .

Oh snap! Now that makes sense! SAE thread pitch in Europe must be a rare as, well, NOS 4002 pickguards!!
Looks like if we want to do it right, we're going to need our Euro friends to send us some machine screws!

Sepp

johnhall wrote:

cjj wrote:Yes, they are 10-24, which is a non-metric size and may be hard to find in the UK.

The RIC part has metric threading. Unfortunately I don't know what it is except that it's the closest size to American 10-24.

This was intentional such that the metric thread would slightly cross thread against the American sized tapping in the wood to keep things tight. That and the fact that Schaller didn't have American threading available on their Swiss screw machines . . .

Yes, I do actually remember this now that you mention it.


A 10-24 has 24 threads per inch which works out to 1.058mm pitch. The #10 major diameter is 0.190 inches, which is 4.82mm. So, a standard metric size would be M5x0.8mm, which would provide the proper cross threading.

I'm gonna have to start using M5 screws for these...

I believe 0.8mm thread pitch is too fine. If you have a bass or guitar with the Schaller locks why not measure the thread pitch with a guage. If you don't have a thread pitch cuage use a scale and count how many threads there are in 10mm, then devide by 10. I measured the vintage style #10-24 screws and came up with an OD of 4.56mm. 5mm may be very tight. It is possible that Schaller rolled a 1.0 pitch (if that is what they used) onto the correct diameter stock. The finer the pitch the less likely it will hold in wood, there is less depth to the threads and leaves a minimum amount of wood for the threads.

We'll still need a tap to cut the threads in the button portion, well I guess that portion does not have to be threaded, in hindsight.

I'll have to raid the metric screw section of my local hardware store to see what they have.

Sepp

Yes, Schaller could have easily used a 1.0mm pitch as this is a standard for many metric screws, meaning their screw machine would easily be able to do it. I guess I'll have to pull one out one of these days and measure it.

I do know, however, that 10-24 works just fine and have retrofitted quite a few older basses with home-built strap bolts with no problems whatever...

aceonbass wrote:What I've done in the past when I did not want the strap button to ever come loose again, is use larger than stock wood screw. I drill the standard Schaller button out for the slightly larger diameter screw, then turn down the head of the screw so it fits in the Schaller button.

Dane,

On my 2011 4003, the one I purchased new, I put Dunlop locks on it. Since Dunlop does not make a RIC compliant strap lock button, I drilled out the stock holes in the bass and used wood glue and a dowel to fill the space. I then drilled the dowel and used the supplied wood screw.

I disliked the Dunlop system and switched the Schallers and had deep remorse for taking a drill bit to my bass, especially since I could have gotten the correct RIC compliant Schaller machine screw button. One thing though, the Schaller button I put on with the wood screws, they are as tight as the day I put them in. I have no doubt that they will never need to be messed with. I'm just not willing to bore out my Blackstar or my Shadow and I'm certainly not going to bore out either one of my 4002's!!

For Christmas, my niece bought me two RIC compliant Schaller buttons from PotR. These are going on my 4002 project!!

Sepp

cjj wrote:Yes, Schaller could have easily used a 1.0mm pitch as this is a standard for many metric screws, meaning their screw machine would easily be able to do it. I guess I'll have to pull one out one of these days and measure it.

I do know, however, that 10-24 works just fine and have retrofitted quite a few older basses with home-built strap bolts with no problems whatever...

Me too, but mine are Dunlop StrapLoks.

ken_j wrote: If you don't have a thread pitch cuage use a scale and count how many threads there are in 10mm, then devide by 10.

I wrote this wrong. Measure 10 threads on a metric scale then divide by 10. 1.0 thread pitch x 10 would be 10mm, 0.8 x 10 = 8mm, 1.5 x 10 = 15mm and so on . Sorry for the error.

ken_j wrote:I believe 0.8mm thread pitch is too fine. If you have a bass or guitar with the Schaller locks why not measure the thread pitch with a guage. If you don't have a thread pitch cuage use a scale and count how many threads there are in 10mm, then devide by 10. I measured the vintage style #10-24 screws and came up with an OD of 4.56mm. 5mm may be very tight. It is possible that Schaller rolled a 1.0 pitch (if that is what they used) onto the correct diameter stock. The finer the pitch the less likely it will hold in wood, there is less depth to the threads and leaves a minimum amount of wood for the threads.

Yup - I think I will also go for the M5 x 1mm route! I think I'm right in saying that the regular ric bolts have about 18 threads, so that is approx 19mm of actual bolt length in the wood. I'm not at home right now (utterly bored at work) but does anybody know the actual depth of the threaded holes in the body? I'm guestimating at least 20mm, so I reckon a 25mm M5 x 1mm bolts will be about right to fit into drilled out Schaller buttons? Maybe 30mm?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M3-M4-M5-M6-M ... 19d7f07388

Guy

Kopfjaeger wrote:I wish there were more stock of the machine thread black locking Schallers available. Not the ones in the UK for $20. per lock!! I'm in the process of drilling and tapping 3 pairs of regular Schaller lockers for machine screw use. It's a pain in the butt. PotR sells the correct chrome ones for $10. per but not in black.

Sepp

Well - there seems to be enough interest. I found a guy here in the UK, who sells buttons that are compatible with the Schaller system, in chrome, gold and black. A bit of engineering is required - the buttons need to be drilled out to accept the wider bolts, and the phillips heads of the 10-24 bolts also need grinding to fit inside the strap buttons.

The advantage I see, especially with older Rics, is that the original internal thread of the wood can be preserved, without cross threading, and then Schaller strap locks CAN be used. It seems that the modern Ric/Schaller strap pins have metric threads, so even using these will compromise the body drilling/threading on older bodies.

Alas - bolts can only be stainless steel, but they are raised countersunk, with a Phillips head, much like the wood screws used on regular Schallers. A tight fit can be achieved with a decent Phillips screw driver.

I need to buy minimum quantities, but if anybody is interested, let me know, and I'll place an order for bolts, buttons and nylon washers, in which case, I'll repost this in the guitar section or technical section, or even the for-sale section!

Rather than £12 each, for a single metric-threaded Schaller strap bolt (that one of the UK vendors charges) I reckon I can get a pair, on 10-24 bolts for £10, which I suspect is probably slightly better than the boutique, but at least available outside of the US, without paying extortionate prices that we have to pay in Europe/UK for Ric bits! (And you get the advantage of not mullering your instrument which will not have been drilled/tapped for the current the locking bolt system!)

Guy

vulcan_creedler wrote:The advantage I see, especially with older Rics, is that the original internal thread of the wood can be preserved, without cross threading, and then Schaller strap locks CAN be used. It seems that the modern Ric/Schaller strap pins have metric threads, so even using these will compromise the body drilling/threading on older bodies.

Doesn't compromise it at all. Put a drop of water in when you install it and the wood will swell rapidly to completely fill back in.

Would you like the Schaller contact info so you can apply for a license under their patent and send the royalty they'll no doubt require?