"R" tailpiece vs Accent Vibrato

[whojamfan]

Thanks Brian

[paologregorio]

Really? Pauls stays in tune great and he hammers it

It's true; I am a complete whammy bar nut, and all my six string Ricks (I have five of them, and I've downsized) have Accent VBs. I do not have tuning issues. I dive it as much as is possible, bend up, and shake the whammy. The key is to ensure the ball end of the string is fitted securely in the "v" notch of the Accent TP. To accomplish this, make a 90 degree bend at the ball end of the string so the string end seats securely in the "v" notch of the Accent. You should not have any problems.

Oh, and don't believe any stories about insufficient "break angle"; you don't need any significant break angle. Here's the practically nonexistent break angle on "Big Red":

The whole guitar:

[paologregorio]

http://www.winfieldvintage.com/parts/end-hooks.html



And your standard Rickenbacker Accent, dropped in:

This is a 600 Series guitar; on the 300 Series guitars this doesn't happen with the factory TP, AFAIK, and I have five of them.

[Ric5150]

This is a 600 Series guitar; on the 300 Series guitars this doesn't happen with the factory TP, AFAIK, and I have five of them.

The effect isn't as dramatic on a 300 series, but its there. My 350v63 was the first I added an Accent to and I didn't use the Winfield adapter - though I knew they existed. I then converted a 660 (with adapter). When I converted a 340, I could tell I wasn't going to like the position without the adapter, so I bought one for it and another for my 350v63, but I haven't installed that one yet as the 350 isn't too bad as is - though the empty screw holes are showing.

[paologregorio]

Hmm. I wonder if it's because of the ramp angle, the smaller body size, or both, on the 350V63.

[collin]

"v" notch of the Accent. You should not have any problems.

Oh, and don't believe any stories about insufficient "break angle"; you don't need any significant break angle. Here's the practically nonexistent break angle on "Big Red":

Accent VB break angle compressed.jpg

The break angle IS an issue on plenty of Ricks, particularly if the guitar has a low neck angle or is a vintage model with a short roller bridge. I've had at least one or two vintage Ricks which were nearly unplayable with the low break angle. Strings popping out of saddles when you strum.

In a few cases, this was due to the Accent spring being too tight and angling the strings upwards to the bridge, where it should be a straight line across the tailpiece and "comb" with a spring that opens. I've had this issue when putting a new Accent on a vintage guitar, and having to source an original vibrato.

[paologregorio]

Fair point: I wasn't thinking about 60s era Ricks-I don't own any of that era; I should have qualified that. My experience is with modern era, and middle-era Ricks `79-ish forward. I was thinking of guys who want to put an Accent on a new or recent Rick and get a number of comments telling them to measure break angle, make sure they have a good break angle, et cetera, but it's not necessary on non-vintage Ricks. How's that?

[parker_knoll]

"v" notch of the Accent. You should not have any problems.

Oh, and don't believe any stories about insufficient "break angle"; you don't need any significant break angle. Here's the practically nonexistent break angle on "Big Red":

Accent VB break angle compressed.jpg

The break angle IS an issue on plenty of Ricks, particularly if the guitar has a low neck angle or is a vintage model with a short roller bridge. I've had at least one or two vintage Ricks which were nearly unplayable with the low break angle. Strings popping out of saddles when you strum.

In a few cases, this was due to the Accent spring being too tight and angling the strings upwards to the bridge, where it should be a straight line across the tailpiece and "comb" with a spring that opens. I've had this issue when putting a new Accent on a vintage guitar, and having to source an original vibrato.

I bought an Accent a few years ago and it was terrible. It wouldn't return to pitch as the metal in the string retainer was actually bending. it also produced an incredibly shallow break angle, so i ended up selling it and am still looking for my vibrato solution for Rics.

See original thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=404393

[Ric5150]

Toby - I looked at your thread and noticed something interesting which I hadn't noticed in the Winfield photo. Your photos, as with the Winfield photo above show a comb/retainer with open ends. All of mine have closed ends. I pulled a photo off a thread on the RIC site which shows it.

I think Greg's in his photo above is that way, as well, but its not clear. Mine are all fairly new. I also checked the one I ordered from RIC last month - still in the bag. Closed ends. Not positive it would fix everything, but that would seem to help a lot with the problem you were having. Maybe give it another shot as the design appears to have been adjusted. Someone here probably knows when that happened.

Greg/Collin - I noticed Greg has a Mastery bridge on the guitar pictured. That probably significantly helps keep the strings in place with that shallow break angle. Not sure what kind of break angle Greg has on his other guitars, or if he went with Mastery bridges on them, as well.

Personally, I like the Mastery bridge and have put them on the guitars I've 'upgraded' with Accents - as well as several others. They work very well with the Accent and give another "low-drag" option besides the roller bridge. They do change the sound/tone/whatever of the guitar. Personally, I think its an improvement, generally speaking.

[paologregorio]

Actually my name's Paul, not Greg.

The Mastery Bridge is not the reason I can use the Accent with a shallow break angle. I've had up to seven six string Ricks (Presently I have five).All of them have Accent vibrato units. But only two of them have Mastery Bridges. All my Ricks have a similarly shallow break angle, and as aggressively as I play, I've never had an issue with traditional Rick bridges and my Accent.

I upgraded to a Mastery Bridge because of my playing style; I don't know how many times I've done a karate chop strum, windmill, or something similar, and knocked my standard Rick Bridge sideways with my hand, because they aren't fixed to the body (I've done the same thing with my Gretsch guitars). When I read about the Mastery, I bought one. I also appreciate the increased volume and sustain the Mastery Bridge provides. I liked the Mastery Bridge so much on Big Red that I bought one for my Blue Boy as well.

That said, I've only been using the Mastery for about two years, but I've been playing with Accent VBs for about ten years with the standard bridge, and with a shallow break angle, with no issues on any of my Ricks.

It's nice to meet another Mastery Bridge fan. Snowman is also a Mastery Bridge fan; they're pretty awesome!

A photo when the Rickpile was slightly smaller:

[Ric5150]

Sorry for the error.

Just noticed the Mastery and knew that could be helping, but clearly not a requirement on your guitars, then.

Yeah, I'm a Mastery fan - other than on vintage Ricks. In addition to that, we also share a fondness for double-bounds.

[Grey]

The shallow break angle is a problem on a lot of guitars with vibrato systems, Fender has been trying to "fix" it on the Jazzmaster and Jaguar for years. First by adding an accessory called a buzzstop and then by moving the trem route phyiscally closer to the bridge on some newer models to increase the angle of the strings. I mean i'm glad it's worked out for Paul, but it's a very real problem.

[parker_knoll]

My Ric had a shallow break angle without the Ac'cent. My Guild Duane Eddy has an almost non-existent break angle but sounds great.

But Paul, yes, you are right, the metal clip was not sealed and i think that was the problem, so it just bent out of shape. I may try again with a newer unit if I can get hold of one.

By the way, I used Bigsby bridges on my Rics and think they are great: they add lots of sustain, you can notch them nice and deep so the strings won't slip, and they cost 20 bucks.

[parker_knoll]

Update:

this Accent on ebay UK from our official Ric distributor also seems to be unwelded, although it's not easy to tell from the photo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rickenbacker-Ri ... 3cfd773408

[Ric5150]

Update:

this Accent on ebay UK from our official Ric distributor also seems to be unwelded, although it's not easy to tell from the photo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rickenbacker-Ri ... 3cfd773408

It might be an old stock photo, or what they have might be that way - I'd probably contact them and ask.

About the only thing I've found is this 2009 thread indicating that the "new" version is closed "like a real vintage piece".

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=391245

So, presumably, they were closed, then weren't, then were again circa 2009....