Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

antonius wrote:

ilan wrote:

Colonel Sanders wrote: I wonder how they can isolate tracks?

Someone got hold of the original multitrack tape. I don't think there's ever going to be a way to isolate tracks after they are mixed.

I'm thinking they've probably been ripped from games like Guitar Hero which features slightly remixed multi-track versions of the originals, which in turn are presumably derived from the original master tapes.

Yes these mixes sound different on the tunes i listened to, listen to the vocals, both lead and backup on When I'm 64, definitely different than on Sgt Pepper.

rictified wrote:Yes these mixes sound different on the tunes i listened to, listen to the vocals, both lead and backup on When I'm 64, definitely different than on Sgt Pepper.

The bass track on that really points out how much compression they used on Paul's bass.

listen to the isolated vocal track on Smoke on Water. Lots of "studio" noise like guitar in another room, doors closing, and manual channel mute key. Also cough and throat clearing just before main verse begins!

Hi,

I'm new to rickresource. Its great to see the Rick on SOTW isolated. i havent been able to emulated this sound on any bass i have.

I ran some samples through a spectrum analyser. The first sample is for the repeated single note intro. The second is for a more extended section in the middle of the bass line.
For comparison, I ran 5 seconds of a clean Precision through the analyser.
A couple of things stand out. Firstly, the profiles for first and second samples are almost identical. Secondly, in comparison to the Precision there is a plateau in the response between 500hz and 1340 Hz. By my rough calculations there is 13db (56-43) of gain at 1340, with a Q of 0.89 i.e. (1340/(2000-500))

Thirdly, there is a plateau between 1850 Hz and 2730 Hz. By my rough calculations, there is 13 db (72-59) of gain at 2730, with a Q of 1.86 i.e. (2730/(3460-2000)).

I suppose the questions are - what contributes to the response .. the thickness/material of the bass, the mix of treble / bass pickups, the strings, the make-up of the pickups. I understand that in the recording of Machine Head, Direct Injection was used to connect the Rick to the mixing desk.

Frank

Well done, and welcome!

That is fascinating. I always describe the Ric tone (neck pickup or both pickups) as "hollow", now for the first time I can actually see the holes.

Welcome to the RRF, Frank!

Looks like we've got another Techno-Nerd™ in the group...


Don't worry, I'm one of the biggest in the bunch...


I suspect it's pretty much all of the things you mentioned that contribute to the spectrum you're seeing...

FrankS wrote:Hi,

I'm new to rickresource. Its great to see the Rick on SOTW isolated. i havent been able to emulated this sound on any bass i have.

I ran some samples through a spectrum analyser. The first sample is for the repeated single note intro.

sotw intro spectrum analysis.gif

The second is for a more extended section in the middle of the bass line.

sotw extended spectrum analysis.gif

For comparison, I ran 5 seconds of a clean Precision through the analyser.

precision 5 seconds.gif

A couple of things stand out. Firstly, the profiles for first and second samples are almost identical. Secondly, in comparison to the Precision there is a plateau in the response between 500hz and 1340 Hz. By my rough calculations there is 13db (56-43) of gain at 1340, with a Q of 0.89 i.e. (1340/(2000-500))

Thirdly, there is a plateau between 1850 Hz and 2730 Hz. By my rough calculations, there is 13 db (72-59) of gain at 2730, with a Q of 1.86 i.e. (2730/(3460-2000)).

I suppose the questions are - what contributes to the response .. the thickness/material of the bass, the mix of treble / bass pickups, the strings, the make-up of the pickups. I understand that in the recording of Machine Head, Direct Injection was used to connect the Rick to the mixing desk.

Frank

Also he used a 71 Rick bass more than likely with the cap still in the treble pickup circuit which cuts midrange and bass coming from that pickup and creates the "hollow" sound, I would bet a new Rick would not have that plateau. I would have thought that the plateau would have been lower in the spectrum though.

On Highway star, it seems that Direct Injection wasnt used, so there is a bit of overspill from the drums and the hammond in some places, however, it still is possible to isolate the rickenbacker at end of some of the long sections. Recording with the mike off the amp possible gives more texture / complexity.

There is quite reasonable similarity in responses from these section, in the middle of Highway Star.
and this towards the end
both complex enough sequence of notes.

Finally, there is the Rickenbacker from Yes' Roundabout.
With the sharpest of notches at 750Hz, and a peak at 1200Hz

There's a clear pattern here of a Ric 4001 tone with a toaster, both with a horseshoe and with a button-top High-Gain treble pickup.

So a quite academic question might be .. could a standard Precision output be 'sculpted' into a Roundabout type of sound.

Here is the filter transform (precision to roundabout) , thats to say the EQ that has to be applied. And here is what its like afterwards which is a pretty good approximation, with the notch quite evident. Sounds okay also.

Secondly, the filter transform for transforming the Precision output to "smoke on the water" is And here is what its like afterward . Again a good approximation, the double plateaus are quite evident.

On Roundabout, the notch is about 18dBs per octave, which would be difficult to do using passive components in a P-bass. Overall, in Roundabout there is about 36 dBs difference between cut in the low frequencies to boost in the higher frequencies. Something which the 4001 appears to uniquely be able to do.

As an aside, I used a 95 position EQ to create the filter transform to fit the various curves.

Thank you for the post

I do enjoy all this delving into the alchemy of Ric tone