Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

What they didn't have was an Andrew Loog Oldham, with an eye toward nurturing that ability (as well as *ahem* building up a hefty publishing catalog), locking them in the kitchen until they came out with a pile of songs!

bw

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BUDDY WOODWARD & THE NITRO EXPRESS
"Honkytonk, Bluegrass, Roots-Rock & a Damn Fine Potato Salad"
[email protected] - www.buddywoodward.net

I know some of those early Stones tunes were terrible. I have a bootleg of a bunch of them and almost all of them are bad. The good ones made it to the albums.

Little teaser for you both Bob,Buddy.

Which track written by Jagger and Richard was recorded by The Searchers.

If you know the answer and I am sure you guys do, did The Stones ever record it. By the way Buddy liked Roses, first time I ahd visited your site, now bookmarked.

I'll never guess, I only have one of their original albums and a Rhino compilation.

But of course, Mr. Clough (nee Cleofian):

"...You can turn off & on more times
than a flashin' neon sign
When you want you're bad,
but you can be so kind..."

Found over here on the FLOWERS Lp, but it's rightful place is the vastly superior UK version of AFTERMATH.

What do I win, what do I win, huh? huh?

Thank you very much for the kind words, Roy. Means a lot coming from a discerning gentleman as yourself. We plan to cut that for real (the track on the site is a home demo) later this summer, along with several others, including a Buffalo Springfield cover for an upcoming tribute CD we've been invited to contribute to by the same label that put out the Gene Clark tribute in 2000.

Hopefully I'll also have some new songs up on the site shortly as well, including "Other Man," which I suspect you will enjoy as it's exactly the type of jangly pop I grew up with, albeit dressed up a bit with steel guitar for the sh*tkickers. You might be interested to know that song has a 12 string sound similar to those huge Burns guitars as opposed to Rickenbacker. I have a pal who has an impressive collection of Burns (if you can believe that), but as he was out of town that weekend I had to resort to a bit of electronic trickery, which I think worked out nicely. If you like I'll give you a shout when it's posted on the site.

Yeah Bob a lot of their early ones are pretty bad, & they tended to give the naff ones away (that applies to Messrs. Lennon/McCartney's earliest output as well), though that didn't stop them from taking the publishing money! But practice makes perfect, & Oldham was far-sighted enough to make Mick & Keith feel confident enough to continue to hone their craft. That encouragement & belief was probably Oldham's biggest gift, as it's very easy to get discouraged & want to pack it in early on in your development.

I remember one or both of 'em saying in an interview that "The Last Time" was the first song they wrote that they thought was good enough to bring into the Stones without being laughed out of the room...

bw

***********************************
BUDDY WOODWARD & THE NITRO EXPRESS
[email protected] - www.buddywoodward.net

Great Buddy, i've always thought these guys SHOULD have been locked somewhere until they'd come up with something of their own... i'm pretty sure that'd work! )
Guys, and what's wrong with Billy Joel? Am i missing something? Here in Russia, he's always been seen as "a good boy" (yeah otherwise they wouldn't let him play here in 1987 ) and a songwriter as well which could have helped in the Searchers' "desperate" writing situation...

I'm not saying he's a "bad boy," I'm saying he's a bad *songwriter* & a wholly unoriginal performer. Once he got through aping Dylan, McCartney & the Four Seasons, he had very little left to say.

I can think of many, many other songwriters whose material would much better suit the Searchers, a short list off the top of my head (including those covered during the Sire period) would include Alex Chilton and/or Chris Bell, Gene Clark, Richard Thompson, Sonny Curtis, Boudeleux Bryant, Tom Petty, Graham Gouldman, Nick Lowe, Will Burch, Raspberries-era Eric Carmen, Kimberly Rew, Marshall Crenshaw, Emit Rhodes, Randy Bachman, Al Anderson, John Hyatt, & similar purveyors of guitar-oriented pop/rock. I'm barely scratching the surface.

Apolgies in advance to any Billy Joel fans, but he makes my skin crawl. Recent interviews, when he was on tour with ol' Reg, where he pointed out with questionable pride how his music tended to be more "sophisticated" because he was, at heart, a "jazz & classical cat" as opposed to "R&B oriented like Elton," did little to dispel that feeling!

bw

***********************************
BUDDY WOODWARD & THE NITRO EXPRESS
[email protected] - www.buddywoodward.net

I may be in the minority, but I've never taken Billy Joel seriously. He did alright when mimicing a style (Uptown Girls = The Four Seasons, The Longest Time = Do Wop) but IMHO he's responsible for some of the worst (Still Rock and Roll To Me, Piano Man, that "Don't Go Changin'" song)ever recorded. I'm aware that putting my feelings bluntly may offend some, but I'm not saying I'm right and you're not, just my opinion. I don't personally know anyone who likes his music.

To be fair, I think that Billy Joel is a talented songwriter, singer and piano player... but at some point musicians have to go one way or the other; commercial and aim for financial success or stay true to their roots and maybe end up not ever being successfull even though they may be fantastic. I think it's safe to say which way Billy Joel went. I think Marshall Crenshaw would have been perfect for The Searchers.
I know a lot of people who like his music, but not a lot of musicians.

"Good" & "Commercial" do not have to be mutually exclusive, case in point The Beatles! Don't tell me, "but that was 40 years ago," look how "1" shot to the top of the charts a couple years ago.

Never one to shy away from controversy or declaring personal opinions as if they were unmitigated truth, I can categorically say that Billy Joel is sh*te. Dare to take the taste test: play anything of his back to back with any classic track by the Fabs or the Stones or whoever & it's a knockout punch.

NOW...before I get myself any further in the soup, what say we aim this thread toward a more benign direction & throw open the question who do YOU think might make good songwriters/songs for The Searchers? I'd like to nominate "When My Baby's Beside Me" by Big Star off their first Lp "#1 Record."

Anyone else?

bw

***********************************
BUDDY WOODWARD & THE NITRO EXPRESS
[email protected] - www.buddywoodward.net

I should have been more clear I guess, I meant calculatedly commercial.
I think of John Lennon as an example of someone who was pretty much non-calculatedly commercial, he was just that talented and honest that everything he did just about dripped of realness and he could ignore the current styles and tastes and write what he honestly wanted to write without having to please anyone. This I believe to be an unemotional assessment as I haven't worshipped any rock musicians since the Beatles, and they were bigger than their sum to me. I couldn't care less one way or the other about Billy Joel so I also believe my opinion about him is pretty much non-emotional also. I believe you can be commercial and still be good, but you can't lose your soul in the process. Thelonious Monk labored in obscurity for close to twenty years, when asked about it, he said basically: Just do what you do and if it's good everyone else will eventually catch on to what you're doing.
I still find it very hard to be completely objective about The Beatles. When you have that much of a lifetime of emotion invested in something like that it's kind of hard to be objective, but I'm sure they wanted to make it like anyone else but they were true to themselves even through all the things that happened to them, they were great right to the end.
When a young kid listens to them today their talent, sincerity and commitment shines through. It's that way with all the greats, Billy Joel? talent? yes, sincerity and commitment? no. He was always just trying to keep up with the latest trends. (IMHO of course)

Of course <g>

I wouldn't say John and Paul weren't calculating at some point. I seem to recall a quote from them something to the effect of "let's write us a swimming pool for our new houses". Eight Days A Week period, methinks.

Buddy,
i didn't mean to say BJ is a 'genius' songwriter nor that he's original, i just thought what the Searchers actually needed was not a songwriting genius but a guy who'd involve and encourage THEMSELVES into songwriting (i might be a bit biased but i truly do believe John McNally could write anything BJ did and maybe even more).
Well, i wonder what'd you say to my other crazy 'suggestion' - Carl Perkins?