Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

DavidSchwab wrote:

Moonie Man wrote:Just like "Glass Onion" - White Album.

I hate to break it to you, but that was a 1966 Fender Jazz Bass.

Sad, but true.

Also, I'm wondering why you used 42 AWG when you should have used 44.

But that's why it would sound like Glass Onion. You wound a Jazz bass pickup.

Nice work however.

David, It is not sad at all for me.
It is a very glad thing because if my Horseshoe pickup can also make the sound similar to Fender Jazz Bass.
Since Side-One of White Album I was heard when that was written by chance it is until it mentioned as an example of a near sound as John said.
Although "Dear Prudence" could be sufficient and "While My guitar GentryWeeps" could be sufficient, since "Glass Onion" was going too far, I thought whether it would be intelligible, that is all. I did not necessarily aim at the sound of "Glass Onion". Moreover, I did not expect about this that the certainty to there was asked.

Is the result that it is better to use 44 AWG born rather than using and 42 AWG?
If I had teaching about it from you, possibly I had chosen 44 AWG.
Since I would like to use next reference, can't it teach by all means here?

Great to see the project completed. It’s been a really great pictorial tour from start to finish.
Now I almost want to make one myself (if I get the time) just for the fun of it.

What if you made a second bobbing and wind it up with 8400 turns of AWG 44. Would be interesting to hear if they sounded much different. Just a suggestion.

I think the best test for 44swg wire would be to wind it to the same 6.8k for a comparison.

Seans wrote:I think the best test for 44swg wire would be to wind it to the same 6.8k for a comparison.

Why so? Now I’m confused again
Wound to the same resistance with AWG 44 will need much less windings, resulting in less output – well, less of everything, so it wouldn’t be much interesting to compare.

Wiker wrote:

Seans wrote:I think the best test for 44swg wire would be to wind it to the same 6.8k for a comparison.

Why so? Now I’m confused again
Wound to the same resistance with AWG 44 will need much less windings, resulting in less output – well, less of everything, so it wouldn’t be much interesting to compare.

Same number of windings with #44 would be higher resistance, but a similar inductance. Probably higher interwinding capacitance too. But I would think this would be a better "first pass" test for comparisons between the two wire sizes.

Of course, it would be best to measure all of the relevant parameters of both, Inductance, DC resistance, and capacitance, then compare. Then you could wind one for the same resistance with the thinner wire and measure those too. Then there would be the sound comparisons, etc. This could keep a guy busy for quite a while.

Just for info, here are the measurements for a new RIC Reissue Horseshoe pickup. Sorry for the bad formatting, the board seems to strip out tabs and extra spaces. Measurements were taken at 4 different frequencies. Ls=series inductance, Rs=series resistance, Cp=parallel capacitance:

Freq (Hz) Ls (H) Rs (Ω) Cp (F)
100 5.95 10.926k 44.53nF
120 5.92 10.985k 42.10nF
1k 5.42 15.788k 3.84nF
10k 3.87 105.76k 55pF

cjj wrote:Freq (Hz) Ls (H) Rs (Ω) Cp (F)
100 5.95 10.926k 44.53nF
120 5.92 10.985k 42.10nF
1k 5.42 15.788k 3.84nF
10k 3.87 105.76k 55pF

Finally, someone who appreciates that DC resistance doesn't really tell you much about a pickup! FYI, our ratings are always at 1KHz, since that's pretty much in the most useful fundamental range of a guitar and the overtones that make a bass sound great.

johnhall wrote:

cjj wrote:Freq (Hz) Ls (H) Rs (Ω) Cp (F)
100 5.95 10.926k 44.53nF
120 5.92 10.985k 42.10nF
1k 5.42 15.788k 3.84nF
10k 3.87 105.76k 55pF

Finally, someone who appreciates that DC resistance doesn't really tell you much about a pickup! FYI, our ratings al always at 1KHz, since that's pretty much in the most useful fundamental range of a guitar and the overtones that make a bass sound great.

Actually, I thought I made that fairly clear way back on page 3...


Oh, and just in case anyone wonders why the series resistance changes with frequency, when back on page 3 I said resistance remains constant with frequency, this resistance is the "apparent" series resistance, taking into account the resistance portion (known as the inductive reactance) of the inductance at the given frequency...

Moonie Man wrote:In manufacture of a coil winding machine, I reflect on having been a little insincere, and I have redesigned fundamentally from the foundation.
What was completed is this.


It became like the diorama of the gymnastics stadium of why and the Olympic Games.
The stainless steel pipe was used for the wire guide, and it set up to become height with the wire nearest to the position rolled round by the bobbin.
Thereby, it becomes average, and the tension which always starts a wire also wire tension control by a hand markedly, and becomes easy to carry out it. I have set the wire guide to the position of this 150 mm away from the bobbin according to advice of Sean(Seans). Thanks! Sean.
Moreover, the spool guide set on the base. It is for reducing a rate of accident as much as possible.
The budget about $10.00USD was newly supplied to this upgrade.

How fast did you have the Ryobi rotating during a coil winding?

Wiker wrote:Great to see the project completed. It’s been a really great pictorial tour from start to finish.
Now I almost want to make one myself (if I get the time) just for the fun of it.

What if you made a second bobbing and wind it up with 8400 turns of AWG 44. Would be interesting to hear if they sounded much different. Just a suggestion.

Geir, I appreciate very much to the advice which you gave. Thank you!
Yes, I would also like to wind by 44 AWG. However, probably, it will be impossible to wind to the last probably with the technic of mine now. That is also one of the reasons for having chosen 42 AWG this time.

#44 wire is as fine as human hair and a lot more fragile - breaks very easy.

johnallg wrote:

Moonie Man wrote:In manufacture of a coil winding machine, I reflect on having been a little insincere, and I have redesigned fundamentally from the foundation.
What was completed is this.


It became like the diorama of the gymnastics stadium of why and the Olympic Games.
The stainless steel pipe was used for the wire guide, and it set up to become height with the wire nearest to the position rolled round by the bobbin.
Thereby, it becomes average, and the tension which always starts a wire also wire tension control by a hand markedly, and becomes easy to carry out it. I have set the wire guide to the position of this 150 mm away from the bobbin according to advice of Sean(Seans). Thanks! Sean.
Moreover, the spool guide set on the base. It is for reducing a rate of accident as much as possible.
The budget about $10.00USD was newly supplied to this upgrade.

How fast did you have the Ryobi rotating during a coil winding?

John, My RYOBI was with the stepless variable speed function. When I set to low speed rotation, voltage became low too much, and it stopped, or rotation unevenness happened.
Although it was difficult to set, but I made it as low speed as possible.

johnallg wrote:#44 wire is as fine as human hair and a lot more fragile - breaks very easy.

That's right, John. 44 AWG is for experts!

Moonie Man wrote:

johnallg wrote:#44 wire is as fine as human hair and a lot more fragile - breaks very easy.

That's right, John. 44 AWG is for experts!

You just need a computerized winder, that's all.

johnallg wrote:

Moonie Man wrote:

johnallg wrote:#44 wire is as fine as human hair and a lot more fragile - breaks very easy.

That's right, John. 44 AWG is for experts!

You just need a computerized winder, that's all.

winder.jpg

I did not take a photograph inside at the time of a winding. It is because the work required much more concentration.
Since I wanted to check sound promptly even after finishing wounded, it placing to my Bass immediately. Therefore, the photograph of the finished bobbin simple substance has not been taken yet, either.
I will remove the Horseshoe pickup assy. from the Bass again and will also show you the completion photograph of a bobbin if a general check is completed.


This is in the current state of my Bass.