Will the Rickenbacker 5 String Take Over?

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:53 am

I really like the historical view as offered by John Hall with regard to the evolution of the bass instrument. If we borrow from the history this may, at least to some extent, argue that we are just a a hit song or a famous artist away from another type of instrument.

On the otherhand, a number of cool looking instruments have been too heavy or perhpas too grotesque to play for many and they have fallen by the wayside. Ever lift one of those "flintstone" acrylic B. C. Rich six strings for example, or wrestle with a Flying V.

Sometimes an instrument of almost perfect proportions comes along that is comfortable and attractive. The "Golden Section" if you will. I think that the four string Rickenbacker bass fits just such a description.

We are bound to be shaped by current events, however, in the long run, those eagles that soar are going to be those that are most adaptive. I consider that the four string is just such a beast.

morrow · Post by **morrow** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:16 am

With a fiver it's not just those extra low notes. You also have more notes in any position and don't have to change position as often.

My aproach to the fingerboard changes when I play a five string,

I still prefer the feel of a four string neck.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:16 am

Also part of the problem is a lot of Rickenbacker users are really quite retro ... hence the popularity of the V63 and C64 models ... Also some manufacturers make better 4 string basses than 5 string basses ... Fender for instance ... the 4 string p-bass and 4 string jazz bass are good designs ... but the 5 string jazz bass is pretty sub standard ... they are famous for floppy unresponsive B strings ... the first ric 5 string bass made was the 4003s5 ... I like them a lot but they are flawed in that the string spacing at the bridge was 2 1/16" ... basically it was a 4 string bass modified into a 5 string bass ... but they could have made the spacing 2 1/4" on that bass very easily ... or they should have redesigned that s5 bass to have a slightly wider neck and they could have had a bridge spacing of 2 1/2" which is workable for most 5 string players ... as most of you know I convert off the shelf 4003 basses into 5 string basses and that is my favorite bass to play in the world ... It outperforms every other 5 string bass that I have played in my opinion ... http://www.3dentourage.com/425/ ... and then there is the new 4004CII5 ... I have not played one of these yet ... it has a neck and bridge which are a lot like the musicman 5 string bass ... but I suspect there coud be a problem with the pickups ... Ric uses 4 string pickups that seem to be the same as the 200/2000 instruments ... my 2020 bass has these pickups ... they have an interesting sound but the width could be a problem ... when I converted my 2020 from 4 to 5 strings I was able to use a Carvin 5 string nut ... it fit perfect ... and I put in a Schaller 5 string bridge that was adjustable from 2 1/2" to 2 5/8" range ... I was having trouble getting string coverage ... I put in a Kahler bridge that adjusted from 2 1/4" to 3" spacing and I was able to set it up fine ... I also had to raise the pickups ...

So a perfect 5 string ric bass for me would have 4003 11 k ohm single coil pickups, a 1 5/8" to 1 3/4" nut, and a bridge about 2 3/8" to 2 5/8" range ...

crazypink · Post by **crazypink** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:56 am

Does anyone know if the 4004cii 5 string is only available in a low B or is it also available in a high C too

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:19 am

once you get it you can string it any way you like ...

henny · Post by **henny** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:22 am

Exactly what I'd do.

I have no use at all for low-B, but - as it's a 20-fret bass... value a high C a lot.

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:50 am

If you play aggressively you may have to replace the nut since the strings will sit "loose" in the original one. It's a minor thing but something that may come up.....

squirebass · Post by **squirebass** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:51 am

I really don't see the need for a five-string bass at all, or a six-string, but they are popular so I guess some people find them useful. I've played everything from Dixieland jazz to rock to punk to fusion on a four-string, and I remember hating to play songs in certain keys when I was younger and didn't know my scales as well. Maybe if five stringers had been available when I was a young man I would have pursued it more. In certain styles of music I find a five-string downright repulsive. I got a Johnny Lang album about a year or two ago, and they had a good blues tune on it that was apparently in "B" and the bass player would hit a flabby low "B" at certain parts of the song that just ruined it for me. I felt the song would've been much stronger if the bass player had just used a four-string bass. I know of a jazz player here in town that plays a six-string religiously, but he never seems to use that top string, just the lower five...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:48 am

the guy probably had one of those substandard Fender 5 string basses ... the low B one a Fender Jazz V is there for a thumb rest ...

edski · Post by **edski** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:03 pm

I, for one, will join the insurgents if the 5 strings take over!

In all honesty, I've never felt comfortable with the extra string, I guess that makes me "purist". I have tuned my low E down to D and occasionally C# (that was for a rendition of Nirvana's "Heart Shaped Box")-what does that do to my membership in the "purist" gang? LOL

Hey, to each, his own. And hers I guess...or to put it in Steve Winwood's words-"Do what you like".

Just do me a favor. If you "Do what you like", just keep it in 5/4, regardless of how many strings you play with.

I heard a rendition of Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" the other day that was in 4/4 and I nearly puked.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:25 pm

even if the 5 string bass becomes the standard Ric will continue to make and sell a lot of 4 string basses becuse there are a lot of people who still want a McCartney, or Squire or Geddy bass ...

Also the 5 string bass is good for songs in E flat, E and F ... you can fret the low note like you 4 string guys do to get an A flat, A or B flat ... it makes for a nice fingering pattern ...

For me losing my low B is like you guys losing your low E ...

There has been a trend for a couple hundred years of getting more low end in music ... the old pianos from 2 or 3 hundred years ago were more mid voiced ... they had less low end ... and the change in the bass violin that John mentioned ... then in the 20th century the electric instruments ... then in the 80's with the advent of powerful sub woofers it became normal to feel the music as well as hear it ... and sometimes playing a lower note sounds better than simply turning up the bass on the note you have ...

I quite often use the low notes to accentuate a certain part of a song ... when a singer or lead player hits a high note and the bass hits a lower note that can be really sweet ... also playing the low B can get you out of the guitar range of tone so your instrument punches through ...

Before I switched to a 5 string bass I seriously considered play a DGCF tuned bass full time ... the problem is the 33 1/2" scale Ric sounds good tuned to E or E flat but not DGCF ... you need a 34" scale bass for that ... but the low B on a Ric is responsive tuned to B or B flat but not responsive when tuned to low A ...

blueflamerick · Post by **blueflamerick** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:19 pm

How the heck can someone play Take 5 in 4/4? I'd puke too.

edski · Post by **edski** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:25 pm

Erik...I heard it on NPR's morning edition as they had a brief break. I used to play on trumpet, so I started to whistle along, and soon I was out of time with the music...

And I thought "WTF????"

It was an abomination. Yech.

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:13 pm

I really liked Squire's work on the 5-string Tobias on 90125 and Big Generator. I never really gave actually having one much thought till the venrable Mr.Rath started showing off his 5-string conversions here on the board.(Thanks Jeff!) I must say I like it and don't find even a 115 gauge string floppy at all but it depends how you play it. I tend to pick mine back by the bridge which gives me very good control over the dynamics of the strings vibration. I play it with my fingers occasionally but again, back by the bridge which keeps it from being too bouncy. I've managed to work it into some older material that didn't have it originally by transposing some parts down instead of leaving them in the higher register. After all it is a BASS guitar and a low "B" extends the 4-string range further into that range. However my feelings on 6-string basses is a whole 'nother thing. Now you're going further into the guitar's territory and why? If ya wanna play guitar get a guitar. Most guys I've seen with 6-string basses sit down while they play those parking lot wide necks and really only use the sixth string so they can further economize on movement by keeping their hand within the first five frets. And then there are 7 and 9-string basses...don't even get me started on those!

cheyenne · Post by **cheyenne** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:21 pm

Jeff , you seem to have one foot in the present with your love of the 5-string, and have one foot in the past with your love of passive electronics. Are there any active 5's that you like?

Not trying to start anything here, just curious.