Stupid playing question

hieronymous · Post by **hieronymous** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:20 am

Maybe a tuner with a tuner mute switch is all you really need? Just stomp on it, tune without everyone having to listen to you (especially those beats!), and you're ready for the next song! Just don't forget to stomp on the thing again...

(To tell the truth, I'm not even sure that such a thing exists!)

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:07 am

I have yet to find an octaver/pitch shifter that tracks fast enough AND doesn't suck out all of my tone. I'm also not a big fan of detuning.....even just to D the lack of tension throws off my playing and the "floppy" string sounds "floppy". I found that my best solution was to just restring one of my Rics B-E-A-D. It sounds like my other Rics, the string tension is "right" and it gave me a great excuse to buy another Ric.
We just group our detuned songs together so I'm not switching constantly.

I'm not saying this is the best solution for everyone but since different options were thrown in I thought I'd contribute my nonsense

.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:06 am

You will not have a floppy string if you use decent tension strings, that's an old accepted trick of the trade. One of the first songs I heard which used this technique prominently was Devil Woman by Cliff Richard.
Beats are caused by two harmonic notes that are not exactly in synch with each other, the farther away from each other the two notes are when played simultaneously the faster the beat is between them, the sound of them is like a Lesley speaker, a kind of wah wah wah. To get a feel for this try playing the over tone at the 7th fret on your D string which is an A but is a couple of octaves up from your A string. Then play your open A or do it vice versa which ever way is easiest. If the two notes are perfectly in tune you will only hear the pure note and it will only sound like one note, if they are a little bit out of tune with each other and depending on how far out they are you will hear a slow or quick wah wah wah sound. This is caused by them going in and out of phase with each other, they go from 0 to 180 degrees, the rate is determined by how far out of tune they are from each other. If they are really out of tune with each other the beats will be so fast you won't be able to distinguish them at all. The trick is to get the two strings somewhat in tune with each other as this is really a fine tuning method. Figure out which string is in tune and tune the other string to stop the wah wah wah, if you can stop it perfectly you will be perfectly in tune. This is the same way tuners work by the way, and some tuners allow you to see the beats which look like pulses in intensity.
If this sounds complicated to you, don't worry about the theory just try it and you'll get a feel for it. This is the way we used to tune before they had tuners years ago. When I first started playing pitch pipes and pianos were all we had and we very rarely used them. Being close to E was good enough, which is why a lot of old records are off key, some a little higher and some a little lower including many Beatles records. Super Beatle amps had an electronic E in them. I bought my first tuner about 2 or 3 years ago, you can tune without sound which is what I like about them, they don't do a better job if you have good ears and sometimes don't even do as good a job as your ear can do if you really learn how to do it well. Maybe if you google it you can find a better explanation.

teeder · Post by **teeder** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:25 am

Mike,
I use the M4 Hipshot.
The tuning key doesn't match the other three, but I didn't have to mod anything.
The only thing is a small added screw hole which will be covered by the original tuner when/if I replace it.

I can tune using the "beats", but this is much quicker, and I don't have to bunch "D" songs together to limit tuning breaks.

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:38 am

Well, the strings have decent tension but it is different than the tension of the others....floppy in comparison. No strings that I have tried maintain the same tension when they are tuned lower. That would be impossible. Some strings may be better suited than others but I don't like the feel/sound of them detuned.

revolver323 · Post by **revolver323** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:51 am

Upon reflection, I think you are a "victim" of having played 5 string for so long. After all, most of the greatest bass lines from the 60s and 70s do NOT use a low B string. I played most of my career on four strings and thought nothing of having E as the lowest note. Now that I play 5 string, I definitely would miss having the B, but I think if I were in a cover band that did older material, I'd play those Ebs, Ds, Dbs, Cs, and Bs on the D string just like I always did.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:11 am

It is a little awkward, you need to always remember that it is tuned to D and yes it is a little more loose than the others but it's not a big problem for me. I very rarely do it anymore anyway I do what Dave does, play them up an octave which sounds very natural to me. I used to play two or three tunes in D with a open tuned D guitarist so I got pretty good at it.

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:27 am

I play some stuff an octave up too. Some of our songs require the lowend though and that is where I switch to the BEAD Ric (I can handle awkward string tension.....I just choose not to....ha ha). With my band being a three piece,IMO, playing some things an octave lower helps to fatten up our sound as well.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:56 am

With a fat tone sometimes playing an octave up also fattens the sound of a band sometimes, McCartney and a lot of 60's bassists used to do that because of the lousy amps back then, they couldn't reproduce the lows very good, but the technique still works.

teeder · Post by **teeder** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:07 am

I only use the lower notes (below E) to fatten certain songs as needed, but prefer to play higher up, ala McCartney. Higher notes cut through so nice!
That's the sound that got me interested in bass in the first place.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:47 am

I like the low notes and the high notes ... that's why I like all 5 strings and all 20 frets ...

RutleDirk · Post by **RutleDirk** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:25 am

I've gotten around a similar situation by playing the higher D as a two-note CHORD (1 and 5). Hit it just right, and it implies the lower note pretty well.

ken_swearingen · Post by **ken_swearingen** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:54 am

And "hey Jeff ",we all know how much you like flatwound strings you left that out.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:00 am

Hey look at the number of your post, haha!

ken_swearingen · Post by **ken_swearingen** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:14 am

Haha nothing ,had to get off that number,bla,bla,bla.............................................................