Rickenbacker Basses Versus Guitars

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:41 am

The more I read the comments here, the more fascinating this thread becomes. I suspect that there are as many opinions to be found on this issue, as there are guitarists and bassist that contribute.

Guitarists and bassists will adapt to almost any playing condition, if they are forced to. I say this because during the early years when we are in the process of adaptation we are often stuck with an instrument that is selected on the basis of our pocketbook and not our wish list.

We become accustomed to the surface of the fretboard, the setup and so on and this becomes the benchmark for instruments that are to follow. So once we get used to a fretboard, pickup configuration and body shape and you become proficient within these parameters, this becomes your comfort range.

For me, the two salient factors in playing lead guitar are the surface and the width of the fretboard. I learned on a 1 3/4 inch, plain rosewood fretboard and so instruments that deviate from these factors are initially less desirable to me. I have overcome this by playing my Rickenbackers exclusively for extended periods. Just as I can switch from standard shift car to an automotic without skipping a gear (ha), I am never bothered by pickups getting in the way when I switch back to a Stratocaster or Telecaster as I learned on these models.

If you are a string bender, and learned on a 1 3/4 inch wide unlacquered neck, attaining the same level of proficiency on a Rickenbacker takes some work. Sliding up and down a plain rosewood neck is different that a lacquered on.

I accept that some of my difficulty in playing lead guitar on a Rickenbacker is my own personal limitation, however, and I expect others' mileage will vary. I am, nonetheless, getting better at it and have stuck with it because I love the tone of a Rickenbacker.

kcole4001 · Post by **kcole4001** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:01 am

I have only the lower half of my 4080 to go by, but it was quite a challenge at first to get used to the narrow, flat neck & small frets when playing guitar, but now there are things I play comfortably on her but can't play easily on my other guitars.
I also find the pups very hot even compared to some hb's, so it's hard to ease back & clean up the sound when playing through an overdrive like you can with weaker single coils.
The clean sound can be total Rick, Tele like, or jazzy like a Gib. Plenty of variation there.
I get lots of compliments on the sound of the guitar out front through the PA when we play, too.
I plan on owning at least 2 Rick guitars, one will be a 330/12 or 360/12 in FG, of course, whether or not they need a little more practice & technique to play.
I love Strats & LP's also, but as far as bass goes I don't feel any need to own (or play) anything but a Rick. Nothing else has the sound & looks combination.
Sorry for digressing from the main topic!

alanz · Post by **alanz** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:25 am

Paul W asked:

Are we going to touch upon the subject of radical differences in personality types between the Rick guitarists and the Rick bassists on this and other Forums?

I will.

The two Rick Bass Gods are, of course, Chris Squire and Geddy Lee, even though, comically or tragically depending on your point of view, Lee only played a Rickenbacker for a very short period of time in his 30+ year career (less than a quarter of it if I am not mistaken). I am not including McCartney because while his chops were probably the best of the Fab Four's he didn't really seem to use his 4001 all that much and his iconic instrument is the Hofner.

The Rick Guitar Gods are Lennon, Harrison and McGuinn, even though Lennon soon set aside his 350 for the Casino and Harrison was playing a Gretsch on Ed Sullivan and later seemingly played everything BUT a Rick.

By comparing these iconic musicians we quickly see that the guitar players were singers and songwriters and came out very early in the rock and roll era; chops were not as refined. Let's face it, Lennon was not all that great a player. McGuinn had that whole jangle harmony vocal Mr Tambourine Man thing happening; happy, not aggressive.

Squire and Lee, though, whether we like their music or not (and I, a former 70's prog rocker and massive Yes and Rush fan turned skinny tie New Wave queer and 60's Brit Invasion fanatic in the early '80s now fall squarely in the "not" category) definitely play the f out of their instruments and that has an appeal to people (men, mostly, I suppose) who don't want to dance, don't care about the classic 3 minute pop song construct and want to play air guitar/bass/drums/keyboards along with their heros.

The Rush fan from the "glory years" of Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures is not all that interested in grooving and dancing and hooks; he's into the technical perfection of fast and tight prog rock. There's a real aggression to that sort of playing that "All You Need Is Love" can't compete with. So, I'd say that the bass forum personalities tend to be more from that spectrum of music for that reason; an interest and a desire to play hard and heavy. There's definitely an air of boisterousness (is that a word?) in the bass forum and that is not a coincidence.

The iconic guitar players tend to be la la la strummy jangle hook verse chorus middle eight short little lead break songwriter types and that seems to be reflected in the guitar players here, too. What a bunch of wimps!

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:46 am

"What a bunch of wimps!"

Just come to a Rampant Carnivores gig & try to keep up Alan.....

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:24 am

In other words, the 4080's should come with a toggle for switching between "Wimpy" and "Boisterous"...

It's all down to "Janglin'" vs. "Danglin'", I s'pose...

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:35 am

Hmmm... an interesting observation, Alan. The bass players i've met in person, including my two best friends from the University, were a) smart - no doubt about it; b) guys with a good sense of humor; c) modest and easy to communicate with... i didn't notice any aggression about them.

(sorry for another stupid question: what is "boisterous"? didn't find this word in the dictionary...)

alanz · Post by **alanz** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:44 am

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=boisterous

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:54 am

Oh Sheena, did I mention it was great to meet you?

Now, excuse me while I level this building with my massive bass stack.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:20 am

of all of the Rickenbacker instruments purchased I bet a higher percentage of the basses actually get gigged with ... but that is my guess ... it is too bad that there isn't a Ric 5 string bass being produced right now ... because most gigging and working bass players have at least one 5 string bass ...

alanz · Post by **alanz** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:50 am

Now, excuse me while I level this building with my massive bass stack.

Ultra-bitchin'(!)

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:53 am

You have to love the low B on the five string bass. It has the potential to clear rooms.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:37 pm

I remember a gig from about a year ago ... we got some feed back from a few musicians in the audience and they said the bass wasn't loud enough ... so in the next set we moved the slider on the pa for bass channel for the next set ... it sounded the same on stage but the 18" subs filled the room and everybody took notice ... with 6000 watts of power my 4003s5 was kicking *** ...

nattiep · Post by **nattiep** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:10 pm

Geddy played a Rick for 1/3 or Rush's recording career. He used a P bass from '69 to '74 before the record contract. From '74 he got his 4001 because of Chris Squire and made his P bass stereo to make it sound like the Rick. He retired it in '84 when he switched to the "boat paddle" because of his massive set up of keyboards.

I play a Rick because of Roger Waters, Paul McCartey and Geddy Lee. I am an aggressive player though. But the reason I wanted one was mainly because of Paul. He got me wanting one. It was the bass he used in the Beatles and Wings that wasn't a hollow bodied hunk of ****. It sounded less wimpy and had balls. Roger got me wanting one more, the bass he used with Floyd at the start. One of my favorite Floyd albums, The Piper at the Gates of Dawn, was played on his RM1999. Geddy was the reason I bought it. That growl, the balls, the perfection. If you can play fast and hard on what I considered an ugly bass (at the time!) then it was for me. I lean towards more older metal now (Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, old Metallica) and harder edged Rush. Steve and Geezer used P basses, but Geddy used a Rick on one of their hardest tunes, 'The Necromancer'. That song is heavy for Rush, and it has that amazing sound. Cliff Burton used a Rick early on too. How could it get any better? Geezer did get a 4001 around 'Never Say Die', so more metal influence.

I belive the guitars are, sorry, wimpy. I hear complaints about them as lead players, and I think of Lennon and Harrison when I think Rick guitars. Personally when I picture myself on stage it's next to a guy with a (sorry) Les Paul. Those are very pretty guitars to me (not the gold top ones.. ewww), They's been one used my most of my favorite bands. Go ahead and call me narrow minded on the craftmanship or the people that use them, but I have not heard anything heavy played on a Rick (besides Betallica on a 350) to convince me otherwise. My guitar hero's (I have very few as I'm a a bass player) played Gibsons and Fenders. Alex Lifeson with his 335 and now PRS guitars (laugh away) and Dave Gilmour with his trusty Strat. My uncle Brad is a guitar hero to me, and he plays an Ibanez Jem. My dad used a left handed MIA Strat. I'd like to own a Rick guitar some day (most likely a 600 series) but I want more basses first.

Flame on!

sloop_john_b · Post by **sloop_john_b** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:44 pm

The iconic guitar players tend to be la la la strummy jangle hook verse chorus middle eight short little lead break songwriter types and that seems to be reflected in the guitar players here, too. What a bunch of wimps!

I belive the guitars are, sorry, wimpy. I hear complaints about them as lead players, and I think of Lennon and Harrison when I think Rick guitars. Personally when I picture myself on stage it's next to a guy with a (sorry) Les Paul.

Every comment like this makes me smile, because it's the reason I love Rick guitars. Keep yer Les Pauls and Strats because we Rick players know where it's really at!

In a way, it's also depressing though, because I really like Rick basses too. But since coming to this forum, i've realized that they represent the epitome of what I generally don't like - big loud 70's stadium/prog rock bands pumping out 10k watts of power through 16 Ampeg 8x10 cabinets.

I didn't start on a Rick guitar - I started on a Strat and later a Les Paul, because I was playing more flat out hard rock when I was a kid. I grew up and moved onto a 360, which I bought on a whim, and it was a bit of an uphill battle getting it to do what I wanted. But as I think back on it now, I think it was only because I was TOLD that you can't play leads on a Rick, and that they're only good for jangly pop.

Eventually though, playing Ricks shaped my tone, my technique, my music, and most important of all, my image!

I just can't wait 'till my album's finished so I can show the forumites how much Ricks are actually capeable of.

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:50 pm

I belive the guitars are, sorry, wimpy.

Oh well... wait until June, that's all i can say...

Alan, thanks for the link.
Steve, were you ever offered a job in a building demolition company?

Oops... sorry for another off topic...