"Coldplay is kinda wussy. I think that's what they're aiming at. Wussiness.
That's ok, there's always room for another Air Supply. I liked some of their songs, too. "
Disagree. Air Supply is melodramatic soap opera music. Coldplay is not. They're not going for "wussiness", but rather, for deppressing-ness . . . at least, that's what they did with "Rush of Blood to the Head". Their music is moody, not sentimental. There's a big difference (well, actually, they do have a couple of sentimental songs, which I usually skip).
But seriously, they're nowhere near as cheesy as Air Supply.
Also, my point about Led Zeppelin stealing blues riffs was that you can't criticize Coldplay simply for lifting the riff if plenty of other, well-respected bands do it all the time. I was not commenting on their effectiveness in appropriating that riff.
And this is gonna get me killed, but, I really don't like Zeppelin's early blues-ripoff songs. At all. They're absolutely boring. The bluesy songs get better on III, though, because Zeppelin started being creative with them. But yeah, that's just my opinion.
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shamustwin
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I did go to extremes to make a point.
Your right about Air Supply and really, I didn't like anything they did.
I agree, Zep did get more creative. But they started out when a blues revival had become the thing in rock. And loooong songs. And that new thing, "heaviness".
Each member of Coldplay is worth 30 million bucks, so I'd say depressingness pays rather well!
Most of what goes on here is a matter of opinion Bobcat, as I'm sure you're aware. It's good to hear other's, and for me, opens up my willingness to consider or reconsider mine. I try not to offend, though I may state things in the extreme.
Your right about Air Supply and really, I didn't like anything they did.
I agree, Zep did get more creative. But they started out when a blues revival had become the thing in rock. And loooong songs. And that new thing, "heaviness".
Each member of Coldplay is worth 30 million bucks, so I'd say depressingness pays rather well!
Most of what goes on here is a matter of opinion Bobcat, as I'm sure you're aware. It's good to hear other's, and for me, opens up my willingness to consider or reconsider mine. I try not to offend, though I may state things in the extreme.
"It's pretty much just stealing a melody line."
Now if you guys would even bother taking a look at that songs credits it's credited to Berryman/Buckland/Champion/Martin/Hutter/Bartos/Schult. They may have stolen a melody line, but at least these guys are giving the original writers credit. The publishing is a bunch of companies too, not just BMG Music. It even says "X5 contains elements of the composition 'Computer Love' by Kreftwerk." They may have nicked it, but the writers of that riff are still getting payed for it.
Now if you guys would even bother taking a look at that songs credits it's credited to Berryman/Buckland/Champion/Martin/Hutter/Bartos/Schult. They may have stolen a melody line, but at least these guys are giving the original writers credit. The publishing is a bunch of companies too, not just BMG Music. It even says "X5 contains elements of the composition 'Computer Love' by Kreftwerk." They may have nicked it, but the writers of that riff are still getting payed for it.
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shamustwin
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I didn't bother looking at the song credits Nate, because I didn't bother buying the album. Pat on the back to them for crediting the steal, but I'm pretty sure they were legally obliged to and didn't do it solely out of the goodness of their hearts.
It's missing my point a bit anyway. When your average Joe/Josephine hears this song on the radio/TV, they don't think "hmm, that's good, I must track down the song credits and research all the output of every name stated in order to check that this great track is 100% original before I give it the credit it deserves". Rather, they think "what a great track - Coldplay are fantastic and I must now go and buy their album".
I just don't think that's fair at all
It's missing my point a bit anyway. When your average Joe/Josephine hears this song on the radio/TV, they don't think "hmm, that's good, I must track down the song credits and research all the output of every name stated in order to check that this great track is 100% original before I give it the credit it deserves". Rather, they think "what a great track - Coldplay are fantastic and I must now go and buy their album".
I just don't think that's fair at all
By that reasoning, bands should never use other artists' work, with or without giving due credit. In that manner, my Led Zeppelin analogy was perfectly correct. People hear "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" and go "WOW LED ZEPPELIN IS SO AWESOME!!!!!!!", rather than going, "Okay, whose blues did they rip off for that album?" It doesn't matter whether it's good or not, then, just whether one artist is benefitting from using another's work.
Personally, I think it's completely fair as long as they had permission and credit the original artist. Stealing a riff for one song is not a big deal . . . it's when EVERY song you put out is a theft that it becomes a problem.
And actually, Coldplay were INCREDIBLY famous before they ever made "X&Y". If anything, "X&Y" made people like them LESS, as it's somewhat lackluster compared to their previous efforts.
Personally, I think it's completely fair as long as they had permission and credit the original artist. Stealing a riff for one song is not a big deal . . . it's when EVERY song you put out is a theft that it becomes a problem.
And actually, Coldplay were INCREDIBLY famous before they ever made "X&Y". If anything, "X&Y" made people like them LESS, as it's somewhat lackluster compared to their previous efforts.
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shamustwin
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Yes, but in 30 or 40 or 200 years, will people be sitting around a campfire with their acoustic guitar, singing Coldplay songs?
The "sampling" of blues artists and their licks by rock era artists probably led to changes for the better and fairer we see today, that Coldplay song as an example.
Clapton's solo in "Strange Brew" is almost note for note a rip from some blues artist whose name escapes me at the moment.
However, as I stated before, it brought those pioneering artists to the attention of a lot of folks, and likely extended their careers. Clapton, for one, has atoned for it in a way. He's still doing gigs with these guys.
Perhaps Coldplay will bring pioneering acts like Kraftwerk to the attention of a whole new generation as well.
The "sampling" of blues artists and their licks by rock era artists probably led to changes for the better and fairer we see today, that Coldplay song as an example.
Clapton's solo in "Strange Brew" is almost note for note a rip from some blues artist whose name escapes me at the moment.
However, as I stated before, it brought those pioneering artists to the attention of a lot of folks, and likely extended their careers. Clapton, for one, has atoned for it in a way. He's still doing gigs with these guys.
Perhaps Coldplay will bring pioneering acts like Kraftwerk to the attention of a whole new generation as well.
"Yes, but in 30 or 40 or 200 years, will people be sitting around a campfire with their acoustic guitar, singing Coldplay songs?"
If people aren't sitting around campfires singing Coldplay in 40 years, I somehow doubt they'll be singing Led Zeppelin . . . It's also really hard to do justic to "Black Dog" with a beat-up acoustic and no rhythm section, hehehe. But seriously, ask kids today, and most of them will be able to name about the same number of Coldplay songs as Led Zeppelin songs. I think that that's sad, but not because Coldplay don't compare to Zeppelin; rather, I think it's sad because Zeppelin's music has been around for several decades and has been the primary influence for a great deal of rock music, whereas Coldplay have been around for a much shorter time and have made less music. In however many years, if Coldplay are super-influential for future musicians, I don't see how people would be any less likely to sing Coldplay songs than Zeppelin songs.
I see your point, but I don't think that Coldplay are somehow an overrated, uninspired, "modern-bands-are-sucky-compared-to-old-bands" kind of band. Not any more so than Led Zeppelin are . . . I don't think Zeppelin are overrated, but they're certainly worshipped as if they were divine prophets. I don't think that's wrong (frankly, music is very spiritually important to me, so they might as well be prophets!), but I don't think you can fault a band for how the media (most notably music press, which tends to stink) portray them. If Coldplay had done what they've done, but without Rolling Stone proclaiming them deities, I doubt anyone would be annoyed. I think the fault does not lie with band.
I actually know a lot more Kraftwerk fans than Coldplay fans . . . maybe it's just because I'm in college and college kids like to be "different".
If people aren't sitting around campfires singing Coldplay in 40 years, I somehow doubt they'll be singing Led Zeppelin . . . It's also really hard to do justic to "Black Dog" with a beat-up acoustic and no rhythm section, hehehe. But seriously, ask kids today, and most of them will be able to name about the same number of Coldplay songs as Led Zeppelin songs. I think that that's sad, but not because Coldplay don't compare to Zeppelin; rather, I think it's sad because Zeppelin's music has been around for several decades and has been the primary influence for a great deal of rock music, whereas Coldplay have been around for a much shorter time and have made less music. In however many years, if Coldplay are super-influential for future musicians, I don't see how people would be any less likely to sing Coldplay songs than Zeppelin songs.
I see your point, but I don't think that Coldplay are somehow an overrated, uninspired, "modern-bands-are-sucky-compared-to-old-bands" kind of band. Not any more so than Led Zeppelin are . . . I don't think Zeppelin are overrated, but they're certainly worshipped as if they were divine prophets. I don't think that's wrong (frankly, music is very spiritually important to me, so they might as well be prophets!), but I don't think you can fault a band for how the media (most notably music press, which tends to stink) portray them. If Coldplay had done what they've done, but without Rolling Stone proclaiming them deities, I doubt anyone would be annoyed. I think the fault does not lie with band.
I actually know a lot more Kraftwerk fans than Coldplay fans . . . maybe it's just because I'm in college and college kids like to be "different".
Sorry to get off topic for a second, but Robert, I absolutely love reading your posts.. 
I don't like Zeppelin just because their such thieves. Sure, the music was kinda cool, but after hearing bootlegs and stuff of them doing some blues number, and then hearing the same stuff on an album with the credit all on them pisses me off. I don't like how everyone thinks of Jimmy Page as a guitar god when he is sloppy as hell. I prefer Jonesy. He is one incredible bass player, and really underrated. Listen to the 'Lemon Song'. He goes nuts there. But Page and Plant stole the lyrics for that song too.. grrr.
I'm going to look for the other two Coldplay albums before I leave just because we get the bonus tracks that the Japanese get. My X&Y CD has 13 songs instead of 12, and I know that Parachutes has a bonus track.
I don't like Zeppelin just because their such thieves. Sure, the music was kinda cool, but after hearing bootlegs and stuff of them doing some blues number, and then hearing the same stuff on an album with the credit all on them pisses me off. I don't like how everyone thinks of Jimmy Page as a guitar god when he is sloppy as hell. I prefer Jonesy. He is one incredible bass player, and really underrated. Listen to the 'Lemon Song'. He goes nuts there. But Page and Plant stole the lyrics for that song too.. grrr.
I'm going to look for the other two Coldplay albums before I leave just because we get the bonus tracks that the Japanese get. My X&Y CD has 13 songs instead of 12, and I know that Parachutes has a bonus track.
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shamustwin
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In reference to campfire sing alongs, I had Woody Guthrie, Johnny Cash, the Fabs and many others not including Zep in mind.
For me, always a pop fan, the best tunes are the ones you can pull out a guitar and have a reasonably good time singing.
Why just last night we set a trash can on fire and sang "Fake Plastic Trees". But that's that other band.
This turning into a Coldplay vs. Zep thing is silly.
The most successful songwriter of the 20th century once said when he's stuck for an idea, he just "nicks" something. If you really got talent, nobody can tell what you've stolen.
For me, always a pop fan, the best tunes are the ones you can pull out a guitar and have a reasonably good time singing.
Why just last night we set a trash can on fire and sang "Fake Plastic Trees". But that's that other band.
This turning into a Coldplay vs. Zep thing is silly.
The most successful songwriter of the 20th century once said when he's stuck for an idea, he just "nicks" something. If you really got talent, nobody can tell what you've stolen.
I didn't mean to turn it into Coldplay vs. Led Zeppelin. Led Zeppelin were just the first band I could think of who borrowed heavily from other artists. They also served as a good example of a band that most people think of as definitively good, and are consistently rated highly.
My ultimate point, I think, is that it is unfair to criticize a band or artist for doing something that is generally acceptable in music; people borrow riffs legitimately all the time, so simply borrowing a riff does not indicate a lack of ability to write good music on one's own. In the same vein, I personally wouldn't dare to predict the influence or staying power that any band will have . . . who knows if Coldplay will even be remembered in a couple years, or if they will become a highly-regarded on the level of any of the '60s and '70s giants. If I'd been around in the late '70s, I probably would've said that Van Halen made terrible music and would be quickly forgotten . . . and I'd have been wrong, at least regarding the objective point.
My ultimate point, I think, is that it is unfair to criticize a band or artist for doing something that is generally acceptable in music; people borrow riffs legitimately all the time, so simply borrowing a riff does not indicate a lack of ability to write good music on one's own. In the same vein, I personally wouldn't dare to predict the influence or staying power that any band will have . . . who knows if Coldplay will even be remembered in a couple years, or if they will become a highly-regarded on the level of any of the '60s and '70s giants. If I'd been around in the late '70s, I probably would've said that Van Halen made terrible music and would be quickly forgotten . . . and I'd have been wrong, at least regarding the objective point.
I'm new to this forum but...this thread died on 4-28? Y'all had a nice riff going.
As for my $0.02, I think the jury's still out on whether or not Coldplay's music will make the campfire circuit in X amount of years. I'm not sure who makes and sets the rules but classics are earned not chosen. And I'm the first to admit that Jimmy Page is sloppy but he was a master engineer/producer and had a pretty firm grasp on guitar harmonies. It's hard for me to imagine a budding guitarist in 2050 not stumbling over the intro to "Stairway." Should he be doing Segovia? Sure, but you know that rebellious youth!
Robt., I had a good friend who was adamant about Van Halen's music being bad. He, being a learned musician, just didn't get the "Eddie" style, I suppose. I havn't seen him in years. Be interesting to know if he still feels that way as this was circa 1976 or around their debut.
In any event, I found this an interesting thread...
As for my $0.02, I think the jury's still out on whether or not Coldplay's music will make the campfire circuit in X amount of years. I'm not sure who makes and sets the rules but classics are earned not chosen. And I'm the first to admit that Jimmy Page is sloppy but he was a master engineer/producer and had a pretty firm grasp on guitar harmonies. It's hard for me to imagine a budding guitarist in 2050 not stumbling over the intro to "Stairway." Should he be doing Segovia? Sure, but you know that rebellious youth!
Robt., I had a good friend who was adamant about Van Halen's music being bad. He, being a learned musician, just didn't get the "Eddie" style, I suppose. I havn't seen him in years. Be interesting to know if he still feels that way as this was circa 1976 or around their debut.
In any event, I found this an interesting thread...
I feel a whole lot more like I do now than I did before
Coldplay is rather lame, they simply fall short. Chris Martin's voice is very whiney, with no power. He has no capacity to take his songs anywhere beyond the droning, monotonous region where they all reside. Add, on top of that, that he has zero persona or stage presence, and is utterly a dork, and there you have it. A highly over-achieving, lame rock band.
"Say what you like about the tenets of national socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos." - Walter Sobchak.
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shamustwin
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