My bass teacher has me plug in to a Roland JC-120. Of course, it's a guitar amp, so I don't crank up on it or the "Healthy" pickups might blow the speakers.
I do believe this one has built in chorus, but never used it. I'd love to offer him something for it, but I'm afraid I can't afford it, plus he swears by this amp. "Only solid state amp I will EVER use" he says.
Wake me from this nightmare. . ..
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Fender quit being Fender in 1965. I know; I ended up with a '75 P-bass. Anybody wanting a real Leo Fender guitar for the past couple of decades has been able to get all they wanted in the G&L brand. Leo worked at the G&L plant designing new guitars and basses until the day he died. Used G&L basses and guitars sell at far more reasonable prices than vintage Fenders, and Leo himself said the G&L designs were the best he ever did. The only things preventing a player from having the REAL and BETTER Leo Fender instrument is a hangup about the logo on the headstock and a refusal to pay less money for a better instrument. My OLP MM2 Music Man Stingray copy is every bit as much a Leo Fender guitar as the Fender branded instruments coming out of Mexico, California, and Japan today. Which is to say it isn't really a Fender instrument other than a copy of Leo's original design, but mine only cost $230 and plays better at a lower price than the fake Mexican stuff that has a Fender logo on the headstock.
New Fender products were only unavailable between '65 and '75 until Music Man products became available. After that, G&L has taken over. As long as G&L maintains the quality as it has been in the past, you can still get a new Leo Fender bass or guitar. So it doesn't matter much to me what FMI (or anybody else) does or doesn't do, who they buy up or obliterate, as long as the real deal, or something equivalent, is available somewhere else.
If Rickenbacker somehow folded, but the management was able to start up again under a different name making the same or better quality instruments, would that really bother you all that much? The only thing really changed would be the logo on the headstock, and I can choose to not let that bother me.
I would prefer that a company not be subjected to that, however, for the sake of the people involved in the shakeup.
New Fender products were only unavailable between '65 and '75 until Music Man products became available. After that, G&L has taken over. As long as G&L maintains the quality as it has been in the past, you can still get a new Leo Fender bass or guitar. So it doesn't matter much to me what FMI (or anybody else) does or doesn't do, who they buy up or obliterate, as long as the real deal, or something equivalent, is available somewhere else.
If Rickenbacker somehow folded, but the management was able to start up again under a different name making the same or better quality instruments, would that really bother you all that much? The only thing really changed would be the logo on the headstock, and I can choose to not let that bother me.
I would prefer that a company not be subjected to that, however, for the sake of the people involved in the shakeup.
Philip, I have to disagree. First off, Leo himself had to say his current designs were his best. I mean, he couldn't possibly allow himself to say otherwise. Regardless, the market has spoken pretty clearly about G&L, the resale is just miserable. That's great for you if you like them used, terrible if you buy one new and decide to resell. G&L is just one company once owned and then sold by Leo Fender. It's not "the real Fender". The marketplace clearly says it isn't and never will be.
You got one bad Fender bass. They declined under CBS ownership. That's over. The current FMIC makes some great products. And despite all the people who delude themseleves about pre-CBS Fenders, the truth is that FMIC's products are consistently better today. And they are still the original and only legitimate Fender.
FWIW, I have a Custom Shop Precision. It cost about the same in today's dollars as a stock production line Precision did 40 years ago. It sounds superior to any pre-CBS Fender I ever heard, then or now.
You got one bad Fender bass. They declined under CBS ownership. That's over. The current FMIC makes some great products. And despite all the people who delude themseleves about pre-CBS Fenders, the truth is that FMIC's products are consistently better today. And they are still the original and only legitimate Fender.
FWIW, I have a Custom Shop Precision. It cost about the same in today's dollars as a stock production line Precision did 40 years ago. It sounds superior to any pre-CBS Fender I ever heard, then or now.
Well, my $230 Chinese OLP bass is also better than a MIM Fender bass, and since it is based on a Leo Fender design and beats the "real" Fender at its own game, it could be considered more real than what the marketplace considers real. Never underestimate the mentality of people in large groups. They have the mentality of a spooked herd of cattle and go in a given direction because the rest of the herd is going that way. They have driven up the cost of vintage Fenders beyond reason for no reason.
Owners of G&L bassses and guitars consistently give them higher ratings on Harmony Central than they do to the Fender guitars and basses they owned. G&L had some of the highest ratings I ever saw, and the owners could not explain the market's undervaluation, but were glad they got it cheap. Resale value is only a consideration if you sell it, and if you buy it used at a cheap price you can't complain if it sells the same way. The guy who bought my used P-bass gave me nearly what I gave for it, so it was he who got screwed by the market's overvaluation of inferior product that time around, while I gladly got out from under it.
Bass Northwest sells new G&L product, but I noticed that Fender product was conspicuously absent, except for used basses. Given the fact that Fender is so popular, if it were the "good stuff" it should be for sale because they could move a lot of it. They have RIC basses in stock. Fender did not have to improve much at all to be better than what I had. They just had to stop being bad. For that matter, my OLP probably matches the quality of pre CBS Fender basses at a cost of $230. Right now, I prefer to play it over my RIC 4004L because it has better action, if not better hardware and finish. For popping and slapping, it is superior to my 4004L. Amazing! But the 4004L still has the Big Bad Bottom due to the hot humbuckers.
China will probably take over the under $500 market in the near future. Gibson has a new factory there. I hear Peavey found a nice little guitar factory in Vietnam of all places. They make a very nice looking Peavey Grind Bass NTB with neck-thru construction that Musician's Friend sells for $360. It probably outperforms a MIM Fender bass also. In a few years, there will probably be several others that beat MIM Fenders as well.
Owners of G&L bassses and guitars consistently give them higher ratings on Harmony Central than they do to the Fender guitars and basses they owned. G&L had some of the highest ratings I ever saw, and the owners could not explain the market's undervaluation, but were glad they got it cheap. Resale value is only a consideration if you sell it, and if you buy it used at a cheap price you can't complain if it sells the same way. The guy who bought my used P-bass gave me nearly what I gave for it, so it was he who got screwed by the market's overvaluation of inferior product that time around, while I gladly got out from under it.
Bass Northwest sells new G&L product, but I noticed that Fender product was conspicuously absent, except for used basses. Given the fact that Fender is so popular, if it were the "good stuff" it should be for sale because they could move a lot of it. They have RIC basses in stock. Fender did not have to improve much at all to be better than what I had. They just had to stop being bad. For that matter, my OLP probably matches the quality of pre CBS Fender basses at a cost of $230. Right now, I prefer to play it over my RIC 4004L because it has better action, if not better hardware and finish. For popping and slapping, it is superior to my 4004L. Amazing! But the 4004L still has the Big Bad Bottom due to the hot humbuckers.
China will probably take over the under $500 market in the near future. Gibson has a new factory there. I hear Peavey found a nice little guitar factory in Vietnam of all places. They make a very nice looking Peavey Grind Bass NTB with neck-thru construction that Musician's Friend sells for $360. It probably outperforms a MIM Fender bass also. In a few years, there will probably be several others that beat MIM Fenders as well.
You won't get any argument from me about how ridiculous the vintage market is. But the marketplace does determine value, for better or worse. And it has spoken on G&L. I can't explain why G&L isn't valued as highly as other US brands, or why it fares poorly compared to MusicMan, but that's the way it is.
Bass Northwest is not a Fender dealer. Despite BassNW's internet presence, my guess is that each of the Seattle area GC stores moves a lot more USA Fender basses than BassNW moves G&L.
My older son has a MIM Fender Geddy Lee Jazz. Until he returns from remote deployment (USAF), I have custody of it. I don't know what he paid, but the tone and workmanship are great. The OLP is fine in its price range, but IMHO it's just not in the same league as the Geddy. And I'm not even a J fan (or a Geddy fan
).
Bass Northwest is not a Fender dealer. Despite BassNW's internet presence, my guess is that each of the Seattle area GC stores moves a lot more USA Fender basses than BassNW moves G&L.
My older son has a MIM Fender Geddy Lee Jazz. Until he returns from remote deployment (USAF), I have custody of it. I don't know what he paid, but the tone and workmanship are great. The OLP is fine in its price range, but IMHO it's just not in the same league as the Geddy. And I'm not even a J fan (or a Geddy fan
).
Although I only play Ricky basses now, I once had a '75 Percision,maple neck and board,off white body with black pick guard. It sounded great and since the band I was in was a progressive rock band, sounded perfect on,among other things, the King Crimson and U.K. we played(both bands featured John Wetton on a P-bass that I'll bet was post '65. My wife recently purchased a 50th aniversary Tele made in Japan that sounds exactly like, you guessed it, a Tele. If it's made by Fender, it's a Fender. Doesn't matter what country it's made in. While I personally prefer Made In USA music products and have sold off all of my non-USA stuff, many can't justify the extra expense of Made In USA products. Also, just because a better engineered product is at least a visual knock-off of a Fender instrument(like the Lakeland P-bass I saw Squire playing on my Symphonic Yes DVD)doesn't mean it's more "Fender" than the CBS stuff. It's unfortunate that all of these other companies can't break out of the 'Fender copy" syndrome but they are probably afraid "the pack" will run in another direction. For me, part of playing a particular instrument is the vibe it generates. Stuff made elsewhere in the world just doesn't generate the "vibe" I want. Maybe it just bothers me that a company like Gibson or Fender would send jobs offshore because people don't want to pay other Americans to do the work at a rate that those people could afford to live. Then again, most musical equipment is sold to people who'll never even earn enough playing to pay for it. I suppose it's hard to justify $1000.00 for an instrument to your parents or spouse if you're after all not a professional musician. People can buy all the imported guitars(or cars for that matter)they want but in 10 or 15 years it still wont have the "vibe" that makes it cool to own to anybody other than perhaps the original owner. When everything that Americans invented is eventually made in other countries, where are Americans going to get the money to buy it?
Philco - i own a MIM fender Precision. While i agree that some of the stuff coming out of mexico a couple of years ago was bad, whta with the same pickups as a squier, plastic strat knobs etc, they have been great in the past few years. The workmanship and construction on mine was flawless- tho i have seen ones where, for instance, the pickups are not seated properly. I replaced the pickup on mine with a SD 1/4 pounder, but really, the original was fine , i just wanted more gain.
So i would disagree that MIM fenders are rubbish. They arent amazing, and yes, i have seen an OLP - quality basses!!!
So i would disagree that MIM fenders are rubbish. They arent amazing, and yes, i have seen an OLP - quality basses!!!
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I've played some F's that were garbage...
I've played some G &'s that were wastes of wood and wire...
I've played some VERY EXPENSIVE basses that were s**t...
BUT...
I've never played a bad Rickenbacker!
I've played some G &'s that were wastes of wood and wire...
I've played some VERY EXPENSIVE basses that were s**t...
BUT...
I've never played a bad Rickenbacker!
My first bass was a Rickenbacker...
My best bass is a Rickenbacker...
My last bass may very well be a Rickenbacker
My best bass is a Rickenbacker...
My last bass may very well be a Rickenbacker
Alvaro - yeah Ricky's are kinda special. They are all good
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Well said, Alvaro.
I had a MIM Fender bass. (What a waste of money that was.)
I currently own a Japanese made Geddy Lee signature series bass. It's actually not bad. Believe it or not.
I do believe that USA made stuff is the best.
As for G&L, I wouldn't mind buying a used one, just for the sake of trying one out. Plus, it would be in my favor to buy it used since the resale value stinks. I don't know why, they seem to be constructed very well by knowledgable people.
I had a MIM Fender bass. (What a waste of money that was.)
I currently own a Japanese made Geddy Lee signature series bass. It's actually not bad. Believe it or not.
I do believe that USA made stuff is the best.
As for G&L, I wouldn't mind buying a used one, just for the sake of trying one out. Plus, it would be in my favor to buy it used since the resale value stinks. I don't know why, they seem to be constructed very well by knowledgable people.
I think what most of us have learned is this:
1. Buy used and play it first in order to get some value for your money and to know what you are getting. Buy new only if it is dirt cheap to begin with like my OLP bass. If I bought it used it would have to be given away to offer any real savings. They usually go for $150-$200 used. Big deal.
2. Fenders are a real crapshoot. Never buy one unless you see and play it first, new OR used. They may be the ultimate poster child for "try before you buy".
3. The under $500 market has totally gone to Asia or Mexico, no matter what anybody thinks or says about it. As Dane mentioned, most people simply cannot justify paying more for American product when quality import product exists at a fraction of the cost. Companies like Peavey are coming out with quality neck-thru basses in exotic wood for $360 street price. My father just got an Oscar Schmidt ES335 copy on sale for $150 (marked down from $300), and he likes it.
I will never buy another new Rickenbacker, or other new American guitar for that matter, but I will buy a good used one if I get to try it first and the price is reasonable. Any new guitar will be an under $500 imported one such as a Peavey Grind Bass NTB. It just looks killer and is worth the price as a visual artpiece. Most good paintings cost more and are less interesting and less useful.
1. Buy used and play it first in order to get some value for your money and to know what you are getting. Buy new only if it is dirt cheap to begin with like my OLP bass. If I bought it used it would have to be given away to offer any real savings. They usually go for $150-$200 used. Big deal.
2. Fenders are a real crapshoot. Never buy one unless you see and play it first, new OR used. They may be the ultimate poster child for "try before you buy".
3. The under $500 market has totally gone to Asia or Mexico, no matter what anybody thinks or says about it. As Dane mentioned, most people simply cannot justify paying more for American product when quality import product exists at a fraction of the cost. Companies like Peavey are coming out with quality neck-thru basses in exotic wood for $360 street price. My father just got an Oscar Schmidt ES335 copy on sale for $150 (marked down from $300), and he likes it.
I will never buy another new Rickenbacker, or other new American guitar for that matter, but I will buy a good used one if I get to try it first and the price is reasonable. Any new guitar will be an under $500 imported one such as a Peavey Grind Bass NTB. It just looks killer and is worth the price as a visual artpiece. Most good paintings cost more and are less interesting and less useful.
I once had a Japanese Fen. Jazz that was a lot better than the MIM Fenders. but then again that isn't really saying much is it?
Buy a Ric you can't go wrong.
Buying a guitar or bass brand new for under $500.00 nowadays is likely to get you a piece of plywood, or one that plays like it anyway.
I pick up the cheap guitars at the music stores and think that it is too bad that kids buy these things and probably quit because they are either too hard to play or sound terrible, usually both. And the worst part is that they often have "reputable" brand names on them.
Buy a Ric you can't go wrong.
Buying a guitar or bass brand new for under $500.00 nowadays is likely to get you a piece of plywood, or one that plays like it anyway.
I pick up the cheap guitars at the music stores and think that it is too bad that kids buy these things and probably quit because they are either too hard to play or sound terrible, usually both. And the worst part is that they often have "reputable" brand names on them.
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shamustwin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5287
- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:00 am
Amen, Bob.
I don't know late 50s Rickenbacker prices and production was low back then, but IIRC a Precision cost $230 in the late 1950s. Case was extra. There was no such thing as dealer discounts. In 2003 dollars, that's $1500. Today you can get an American Series Precision for about $900 actual with case, maybe a little less. If you could compare prices from RIC you would no doubt find the same. Most of today's US-made instruments are great values.
As for the quality of the various import products, that's a real crapshoot. Historically, woods have often been mislabeled. Electronics and hardware are almost never of the same quality as the US or European counterparts, they are just made to look that way. That would be okay if everyone understood that they were only getting an imitation of the real thing. The problem is that some consumers assume they actually are the same.
Just another reason to be glad we have Rickenbacker.
I don't know late 50s Rickenbacker prices and production was low back then, but IIRC a Precision cost $230 in the late 1950s. Case was extra. There was no such thing as dealer discounts. In 2003 dollars, that's $1500. Today you can get an American Series Precision for about $900 actual with case, maybe a little less. If you could compare prices from RIC you would no doubt find the same. Most of today's US-made instruments are great values.
As for the quality of the various import products, that's a real crapshoot. Historically, woods have often been mislabeled. Electronics and hardware are almost never of the same quality as the US or European counterparts, they are just made to look that way. That would be okay if everyone understood that they were only getting an imitation of the real thing. The problem is that some consumers assume they actually are the same.
Just another reason to be glad we have Rickenbacker.
Fender seems to treat its product line like..selling cars or computers....."standard deluxe, american special" within those catagories some are good some are awful. At least Rickenbacker treats each guitar as an individual musical instrument.
Also, Fender have really lost the plot.....take a look at the website........silver teles with blue stripes???? 1 pickup???? 1 knob??? no pickguard of control plate???
load of ****. gimmicks. Also A lot of guitar companies have a habit of instantly making a nice guitar look cheap my finishing it in plastic. It looks new for ever and looks so cheap
Also, Fender have really lost the plot.....take a look at the website........silver teles with blue stripes???? 1 pickup???? 1 knob??? no pickguard of control plate???
load of ****. gimmicks. Also A lot of guitar companies have a habit of instantly making a nice guitar look cheap my finishing it in plastic. It looks new for ever and looks so cheap
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