Sgt Pepper voted #1

[expomick]

Burn-out, baby, Burn-out.

But then, that happens to a lot of good things in life.

[westtexasrickenbacker]

' Peppers isn't my favorite Beatles album. I think it's great, but Abbey Road and Rubber Soul are my favorites.

What was so monumental about Sgt. Peppers were the recording techniques and the sound they captured on tape. The conceptual artwork was marvelous and even the Beatles concept for the music of the album was so different for its time.

From what I've read from their peers, this is the album that ushered in so many changes in the pop recording world and in that vein, it was hugely influential.

Instrumentation choices and overall scoring of the music were vastly different from pre-67 pop.

A story from Mark Lewisohn's book, the Beatles Recording Sessions really paints a revealing picture on how far ahead of their time the Beatles and their recording team were. It talks about the producer for "The Hollies" being at the "Day in The Life" session, I think it was where they did the orchestral overdubs, and turned it into an 'event'. Anyway, this producer leaves the session basically saying that he 'gives up'. Their collective creativity seemed untouchable.

The songs are great, too! I just don't believe them to generally be as strong as some of their other work.

[studiotwosession]

And it is funny how in that era Hendrix and Cream and others tend to get all the credit for pop music changes (mainly because of how live shows changed between 66 and 68.)

When of course the Beatles put out Pepper, and had, along the Beach Boys, rewritten the pop book already, via innovations in songs and the studio (which was really a lot more innovative than playing loud and adding long solos to live sets.)

>>The songs are great, too! I just don't believe them to generally be as strong as some of their other work.<<

I agree with those who put Abby Road above all others, though I'm not sure this is logical (and it is innovative in its own way because for the first and only time Harrison's songs were among the best if not the best on that LP and the sound was huge compared the previous efforts due to 16 tracks.)

It was noted that Lennon said he felt like he'd slacked off in the songwriting dept., with Paul being the major force on Pepper.

But at the same time he knew that A Day in the Life was as major a track as anyone's ever done, and one of his personal favs. No less great, conceptual or breakthrough is Being for the Benefit...

Perhaps even more than A Day In it is a fine example of how breakthough Pepper was. It certainly is the Tomorrow Never Knows of that record.

The only other fabs song of his own that he was most proud of is I Am the Walrus, which would fit on Pepper probably better than any other fabs track (save the two on the single from the same sessions.)

[jt10824]

David, David, David.

Once again from you we get some very bizarre and misguided observations, stated as fact but actually untrue.

Yes, Abbey Road's Ken Townsend invented ADT but he most certainly did NOT invent varispeed. It's an effect that was used as far back as the birth of wire recorders (the precursor to tape) back in the 1920s/1930s, most especially on the genre known as "music concrete."

And the Beatles never recorded on Studer 4-track machines. EMI had their own proprietary multitrack and two-track machines, which operated quite differently from Studers and had a very different sound.

You are willing to "fully credit those incredible seat of the pants technical innovations," those "1966 era innovative bleeding edge studio technical work from which made the making of Pepper possible" (to use your own clumsy terminology) but you are unwilling to give any credit to Geoff Emerick, the recording engineer who was at the heart of it all because of your personal dislike of the man, obviously formed from similarly uninformed opinions. What a ridiculous position to take!

OK, time for you to attack ME now, I know. Here we go again...

[jt10824]

Mick,

I agree with your opinion about A Hard Day's Night being one of the best Beatles albums, and you are correct in your observation that it was their first album to consist solely of Lennon/McCartney originals.

What's always been interesting to me is that Lennon wrote ten of the thirteen songs on that album, and it's some of his most brilliant pre-1966 work (when he was still viewing himself as just a pop tunesmith). In many ways, I think AHDN marks his peak as the dominant force within the band. All succeeding albums, up to (but not including) the White Album demonstrate less input from John and commensurately more from Paul.

Another interesting fact about AHDN is that it's the first Beatles album to feature extensive 12-string Rickenbacker work from George Harrison.

[jt10824]

Glenn,

I think that only revisionist history gives most of the credit to Cream and Hendrix for the pop innovations of 1967. Their biggest influence would come in the next few years -- '68, '69, '70.

But when it came out in June of 1967, Pepper was far and away the biggest thing to hit the popular music world, and it had a tremendous influence on almost all music made after that -- it even influenced Hendrix to a degree (the famous story about him covering the Pepper theme song at a live gig just days after the album was released), though probably Clapton less so.

I agree also that many people prefer Abbey Road because of the strength of Harrison's songs. It did also sound different from previous Beatles albums, due to the change to transistorized equipment (from tube) at Abbey Road -- something Geoff Emerick (who co-engineered it along with Phil McDonald) talks about extensively in his book. However, the Beatles never recorded in 16-track; Abbey Road was the first album to be done entirely in 8-track. Part of the White Album was also done in 8-track, as were a handful of singles (The Ballad of John and Yoko was the first).

[firstbassman]

David - "I still view Pepper as a highly gimmicky very flashy pop show-bizzy shtick album."
You are 10,000% correct.
The only songs on SPLHCB that don't fit that mold are the non Macca songs mentioned in other posts (GH's WYWY and HALF of Day/Life).

I understand that late '66 - early '67 is a difficult period to judge now. It was easy I guess to fall prey to the hippie-sitar-special effects influence of the time. But not everyone fell prey to that strong urge. The Airplane's After Bathing At Baxter's has none of that stuff. It is just a brilliant mixture of rock-folk-jazz-blues. Showing that it can be done.

And oh, sorry, I did forget about Hard Day's Brilliant. LOVED that record, even as a kid, when it came out.

[studiotwosession]

John, I stand corrected on the tracks issue, thanks.

>>"I still view Pepper as a highly gimmicky very flashy pop show-bizzy shtick album."<<

I'd like anyone to be more specific about this statement, site some examples as to how? Otherwise, it's too general to hold water.

Yes, Pepper was a gatefold album, and yes the band had special suits made, a lot of effort was put into the art direction of the cover and the lyrics to the songs were printed on the album, a first for pop rock record.

But that was really done on the cheap (they didn't even have enough money to buy enough flowers for the cover shot. So half of what you see is dirt.

And the tracks are not superfluous or pretentious or showbizzy for the sake of flash and it's not over produced...not any more than say Tomorrow Never Knows (when they did tricks, it was to pull off an idea.)

Sure there's an orchestra, and tape loops and whatnot but it's all there for a purpose, works brilliantly, and with George Martin around, he kept them from jumping on the gimmicky toys that were popping up in those days (for instance, the wha wha pedal.)

I do agree Pepper spawned a lot of rubbish, but it is in fact a great record. I've heard people say "there's a lot of production there," but never "it's overproduced" (I think it was Lennon's fave despite his relative few songs on it.)

[beatlefreak]

I have to agree with Glenn. I'll add that you cn't just throw away all the McCartney tracks. Sure, "She's Leaving Home" is somewhat schmaltzy, and "When I'm Sixty-four" is MOR, but "Getting Better" is a straight ahead, no frills rocker. And "Fixing A Hole" is funky with a bit of an edge to it - And no way over-produced. Not to mention the title track and it's reprise work effectively. "With A Little Help From My Friends" is just Ringo - And perfect for him.

[studiotwosession]

I'll admit I don't listen to Pepper often. I grew up on it. I go back to it every four or five years. But yeah, I've heard it a billion times.

And yes, Kris, She's Leaving Home is a very sentimental song with no guitars, etc. But if you want schmaltz, listen to the Raspberries/Eric Carmen try to coppy Macca. That is schmaltz, when what you do is a pale imitation of a master.

And Macca working with Martin (though I think the strings were composed by someone else 'cause Macca coudn't wait and Martin was busy, which irked Martin a bit) was a master at that point (I do agree that Macca would, could and did do schmaltz on his own and with Wings later.)

I guess it's all in the execution. Lennon, of course, did his part to keep Macca from getting cheesy. I've often wondered how they did the basic tracks. Did Paul sing with a chamber group or what? There are no keys, nor guitar.

Listen to some of Squeeze's East Side Story, where they try to do a track or two that are very Macca/Pepper-esqe, with strings and whatnot. They can't pull it off. It isn't working. And fails miserably. That shows you how hard it is to execute a song and production like She's Leaving Home as they did.

When I'm 64, well, we've learned that lyrically it's a pretty amazing song for a 16 year old to have written. And that part of Macca's song craft came from his father's influence. The clarinets are something he obviously likes and used on solo tracks in the 70s. They fit the tune well, and I think it fits well as track 1, side 2. At that point first time listeners must have thought "where is this LP going?" not knowing it would wind up as it does.

Pink Floyd's early stuff was also like this, not the way it sounded but very innocent kind of child's-perspective lyrics. There was a big branch in songwriting in the psyche genre (probably starting with Lennon being influenced by Alice in Wonderland.)

We see at this point that's where some of Macca's inspiration was coming from, the 40s and such, whereas Lennon soon would go back to roots rock. Fixing a Hole is subtle, but a great acid track, lyrically. "I'm painting the room in a colorful way..."

There of course was a lot about holes with the Beatles in these years...whether they were fixing them, noticing articles about them in roads running though Blackburn Lancashire, or Ringo having one is his pocket.

[jt10824]

Glenn,

You said:

"I've often wondered how they did the basic tracks [of She's Leaving Home]. Did Paul sing with a chamber group or what?"

It's actually a pretty amazing story, according to Geoff Emerick's book. The strings were recorded first, in stereo, and then both Paul and John sang together, live, because they wanted both their parts double-tracked and everyone was trying to avoid bouncing down and the resulting generational loss. So they did both their parts -- lead vocal and counterpoint -- live, and then they did them again, live. According to Emerick, they nailed it in just a take or two. And don't forget, this was long before the days of Pro Tool and auto-tuning. Those two guys really could sing!

And you're right about George Martin not arranging the strings for that song, as is also documented in the book. Mike Leander was brought in because George Martin was unavailable on the day Paul wanted to record -- something that quite miffed Sir George. That's apparently what the Beatles were like: when they wanted something, they wanted it NOW, and they didn't care whose feelings they hurt to get it. Emerick also thinks this might have been a little warning shot fired across the bow, an unspoken message from Paul to George Martin along the lines of, "you're not irreplaceable, you know, so don't get too big for your britches." Interesting stuff.

[beatlefreak]

Don't get me wrong - I like SPLHCB. Always have - Even the non-rock songs. I was just trying to tie in with the nay sayers point of view about the album. As a concept album, it does fall short. But that still doesn't take away from the quality of the LP.

One of the things I always liked about the Beatles is that they didn't do one or two types of music. They were always experimenting with different music genres and instrumentation. Each successive Beatles album took them another step towards musical maturity, and usually about a step ahead of their counterparts. When I hear comments about they "fall prey to the hippie-sitar-special effects influence of the time", I have to say that the Beatles led the way in both Indian influences and effects. As other groups were picking up these ideas and working with them, the Beatles had already moved on to the next phase.

And just as a note: "When I'm Sixty-four" is actually the second song on side two of SPLHCB. The first song is "Within You, Without You".

[shamustwin]

...and according to Emerick, The White Album was the anti-SPLHCB.

Emerick implies or says (have to re-read to be sure) Paul purposefully let John have the reins on that one, rough, hard sound, almost lo-tech, as payback for "Pepper".

Pepper ranks 3rd in the mid-late period fabs for me, behind Revolver (brilliance, still playing like a band for the most part), and Rubber Soul.

[studiotwosession]

I stand corrected, on the running order, Kris. I guess what I meant is 64's in a great place, juxtaposed behind it's polar opposite in song on the LP.

Thanks for the insight on the sessions, John. That is cool. I still wonder what instrument Paul composed the tune/music on, eh? You know, he didn't write music then. So he had to come up with it on something.

>>a concept album it does fall short. <<

Let's keep in mind that that phrase probably hadn't even been coined (at least as far as rock goes) while they were cutting Pepper. (Though unlike others have said, concept albums had existed long before. Sinatra singing a whole album about different places on earth, and travelling to them, "Come Fly With Me" is a concept album.)

Paul's idea was to have an intro and outtro to the album, and they decided to tie Ringo's sung tune to it, and that idea they probably didn't care much either way when the original idea was thought of...it was just an after thought.

So it went as far as they deemed necessary, though the tracks are so different from one another yet somehow seem to work together seamlessly, that it's not unlike seeing a bunch of different acts come on and off a talent show or something. That's the vibe the record has. The White Album is full of different kinds of songs, too, but they don't work together as well (and it's been pointed out that they're not all as consistent as is the case with Pepper's.)

And what so called "concept" album hasn't fallen short? Townshend himself says that the concept behind Tommy couldn't be more inane.

[shamustwin]

I thought Macca stated he wanted SPLHCB to be a concept album, but that quickly petered out as recording went on.