Getting the Byrds sound

[rick36]

McGuinns picking style, IMHO, is actually a hybrid of Travis picking and the "Frailing" banjo style - quite unique!
Also, there are two main Ric Guitar tones that I hear from Roger. The 370/12RM has the “squishy” 5D sound that is so distinctive and is still used by McGuinn as is evident on The Folk Den’s electric tracks. I think this sound is fantastic. I’ve gone through 4 compressors , 3 guitars and numerous amps to achieve it.
I've found that I can replicate this sound best by using my 360/12 with High Gains and a Boss CS-3 compressor. The attack needs to be set ALL the way up (5 o’clock) and the sustain at 2 - 3 o’clock. This nails the 5D sound. Try it, you’ll like it!
The Janglebox conjures up the sound of McGuinn’s first 360/12 as heard on the MTM and TTT LP’s. I get this sound on the 360/12C63 with no effects - it’s that accurate and very distinctive. Add the same compression and it brings additional sustain and a boost to the mid frequencies. A very pleasant early 60’s Ric sound. The 370/12RM and Janglebox compressors are obviously quite different.
Of course, there's the YTY sound that I think can only be nailed on a 370/12, but I'm still working on that one...

[janglebox]

The 370/12RM has the "squishy" 5D sound that is so distinctive and is still used by McGuinn as is evident on The Folk Den's electric tracks. I think this sound is fantastic. I've gone through 4 compressors , 3 guitars and numerous amps to achieve it.

On those re-recorded Folk Den tracks, Roger is using a JangleBox. Or two.

[budrocket]

> McGuinns picking style, IMHO, is actually
> a hybrid of Travis picking and the "Frailing"
> banjo style - quite unique!

It is unique, & not to be contrary but I wouldn't really call it similar to either style.

Travis picking uses the thumb playing alternating bass notes on the 1 + 3, & the first finger (or first & second, in the Chet variation) plays a syncopated melody on the other strings.

McGuinn's playing style is much closer to 3-finger Scruggs-style *bluegrass banjo*, which he learned from Frank Hamilton at the Old Town School in Chicago, where the thumb (in McGuinn's case it would be the plectrum held between thumb & first finger) carries the melody, & the other two fingers play arpeggiated fill notes, using metal fingerpicks...as opposed to frailing or clawhammer, which is done with bare fingers, the first finger carries the melody, though it's less melodic & more rhythmic overall, & there's a lot of string "brushing" going on instead of arpeggiation.

In fact, his style might be even closer to Ralph Stanley's variation on Scruggs 3-finger banjo, where the forward roll is almost exclusively used.

bw

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[jimk]

McGuinns picking style, IMHO, is actually a hybrid of Travis picking and the "Frailing" banjo style - quite unique!

Pardon me, I hate to sound rude, so I hope you'll permit me to politely disagree with your terminology here. Travis picking is not the same as pattern picking. Travis picking is named after American country guitarist and songwriter (Sixteen Tons, Dark As a Dungeon) Merle Travis, who learned to play guitar from local neighborhood guitarists like Ike Everly (father of the Everly Bros.) and Mose Rager. Merle Travis' style utilizes thumb and index finger to play a bass line and the melody simultaneously, plus the heel of the picking hand to mute, or damp the bass strings of the guitar. Buddy's post is correct.

Frailing banjo is the same as clawhammer banjo, a downward picking style using the index fingernail (usually) to play the melody, while the thumb is reserved to play the fifth through second strings of the banjo. The other three fingers are reserved for auxiliary brushing on the off beats of a measure, if the melody permits.

McGuinn's style is based more on a typical folk style pattern picking which goes something like this: Thumb, 2, Thumb, 1, repeat; or reversed T,1,T,2, or T+2 pinch, T, 1, etc. Except he substitutes a flat pick for the typical thumb pick, allowing him (allegedly) to play quick single string scale passages.

I say "allegedly" because a good finger picker can play the same single string scale passages utilizing thumb and index finger alternately.

Anyway you slice it, I agree that McGuinn's 12 string technique is unique sounding.
JimK

[Don Miller]

I was making some practice tracks on my recorder..one tune I recorded was "Youre Still on My Mind" as done on the "Live at the Fillmore" CD...I was able to get McGuinns tone with my 370-12 using the bridge pickup, treble slightly rolled off, into a Janglebox, both knobs at 2 oclock, and direct into the 8 track. On that CD, and that track in particular Roger plays much more rhythm guitar strummed with a flat pick....so its simpler to nail than some of the hybrid picking he has done elsewhere. The hard part has been trying to get that almost overdriven sound Clarence had on that tune

[raider]

A friend of mine just bought a 330-12 string
about a month ago. I went over and played it
I'm not that good on those guitars yet. Its
a little different then my 350V63 but the
12 string is something that I will have to
look into. So I will ask on a 12-string which
one a 360, 370, 330, 620, 660, or a 350V63 12
string? Which one would give the best Byrds
sound and how about the amp like my AC-30TBX?
Lou D

[karl_teten]

Don, Clarence's overdrive tone was most likely from his custom made fuzz pedal that was stolen. I have a studio photo (around the same time with John York) of Clarence with a Fender Blender at his feet.

[Don Miller]

Yup, I've seen that photo...and
I know what he used...I just couldnt find the tone with the gear I had on hand....

[mcd220]

ALL great notes gentlemen! What I've always done; (and this is because I could NEVER get the hang of fingerpicks) is on the two picking fingers, I keep my two nails trimmed to a PRECISE length.

So what happens is the string is sort of attacked by a caloused finger, followed immediatley by the nail. I get a MUCH SHARPER AND LOUDER tone that you would think.

Now, of course, the nail WILL break if it's too long, and if it's too short, you won't have the tone and timbre.

This is the way I've always done it. I'm EXTREMELY rudimentary on Banjo, but I do the same thing here as well.

Remember, this style of playing (Depending on how much of a natural you are, or not) requires CONSTANT practise, to keep the fingers moving, AND to toughen up the the tips of the picking fingers and nails.

Good luck with it, and don't feel bad; playing Roger's stuff on that skinny neck is tough, no question!


Christian

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[jimk]

Great improvisation, there Christian, using fingernails instead of picks. And your point about keeping up the fingernails having them filed and shaped just so is important. I switch back and forth between picks and fingernails. And I always play banjo with fingernails, as well.

JimK