Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Owen, would you care to re-phrase that? I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

Sergio - i just read it back to myself, what am i talking about? ..... I dont know

What i meant was:

If you make the pickup hotter, there is less treble due to more windings on the pickup - yes?

The cap cuts bass and mid, leaving only the treble.....surely a hotter pickup would result in lower overall output as it has more lows than highs....and all the lows are filtered out by the cap.

I hope you can see what im saying now

All you guys need an electronics lesson, the cap does not cut treble unless it is seriously out of wack, does not cut total volume unless it is seriously out of wack, it cuts some mid and more bass, which obviously a lot of people percieve as a drop in volume. What you really have is a drop in in mid and bass. With a cap wired in series in a circuit, the lower the frequencie going through it, the less volume of that frequency, the cap does not affect volume of the treble frequencies in the Ric, it affects the tone of the pickup, makes it trebly sounding, by cutting mid and more bass. The cap actually functions as a non-variable bass control turned all the way counterclockwise (down) only on the treble pickup.

A resistor cuts volume, that is what your volume control is, it is a variable resistor. It cuts all frequencies equally.

A pickup with more windings does not have less treble, it has more bass and mids and more volume. (all other variables being equal) The reason the old pickups have less bass (besides the cap) is that there are less windings on them. Being closer to the pole pieces probably helps too. That is why the 4003's are much louder and punchier sounding than the 4001's, the pickups have more windings(and no cap)which results in more volume and more mid and bass punch.

The result of a cap in a Ric on the treble pickup:

500HZ and up in a Ric (treble) 100%
250HZ. (mid) 75%
100HZ. (Lo Mid) 50%
50 HZ. (bass) 25% or less


Now this is just from my head as a way of illusration, I don't really know what the frequencies are, but this is a rough estimate.
500HZ and up in my graph would be full output and treble.

The tone controls in a Ric shunt more and more treble to ground through a cap as you turn them (again the cap only lets the treble through), that is why it gets bassier (less treble) when you turn your tone pots down counterclockwise. The volumes controls shunt all frequencies equally to ground. I knew I paid $5000 to Sylvania Tech for something 20 years ago. LOL
Feel free to correct any mistakes if there are any technicians or engineers out there, Phil?

Owen, a hotter pickup with the same cap would be louder and less trebly. That is the case (I think) with later 70's 4001's

You're assuming that the only way to make a pickup hotter is overwinding it. You're wrong. The treble pickups I've built for my Rick basses simply have stronger magnets and larger polepieces. Their ohm rating is roughly 7.5 K (the standard value for Rick pickups in the 70's and 80's). Get it? Any further questions?

I can testify to Sérgio's statement on the magnet's and polepieces' influence to the hotness of a pickup.
The treble pickup, with adjustable polepieces, that Sérgio built for my Annie is as hot as a modern high gainer and more hi-fi sounding---the low end deepness and plenty of high end sizzles are all there. To boot, its adjustable polepieces, which are great improvement over current stock RIC pikups, make it easy to get an even volume balance out of whatever strings I use.

And Bob, yes you nailed it perfectly on what the .0047 mfd cap does to the sound that goes through it.
Most people perceive the result as volume loss due to the fact that frequencies below 500 Hz are what makes up the "meat" of a bass' sound.

I don't and didn't assume that the only way to make a pickup hotter is to add more windings, that is why I added "all other variables being equal" A stronger magnet will make a pickup hotter all other things being the same, and the closer the windings are to the pole pieces, the hotter the pickup will be also, I am not sure what that will do to the sound, it would probably be brighter.

I had no questions in the first place.

I don't pretend to be an expert but I do understand electronics, and theory. And I certainly don't think that I know it all, I have learned a real lot from many people in this forum, I also have a few things I can teach, that is the way this forum should work IMHO.

I also think arrogance has no place in this forum.