Have I sinned?

grayk · Post by **grayk** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:48 am

I thought it might be a touchy one ! I however am not convinced by 5 strings. I appreciate that people have a choice and "want" to play them. I just thought that I would put the opposite argument forward as other people seem to be so complimentary of 5's.

Shaun, I have seen just about every major band/artist in the world live in every type of venue, small and large. Going to see live bands is a big deal to me. I do a festival every year so I have seen most current bands as well. I have not yet seen a bass player playing a 5 stringer that has made me think "that sounds great" and I have seen dozens and dozens ! It must be me missing the point... or I have lost the bottom end of my hearing !

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:37 am

HUH???? WHAT????

[snicker]

rickfan63 · Post by **rickfan63** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:47 am

I agree with Keith. I used to own two five strings, and sold both of them. IMHO, they are overrated. I prefer my four bangers any day.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:07 pm

The only sin you made was in not buying a neck through 4 string T-bird. Keep the Ricks in circulation.

markbass99 · Post by **markbass99** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:31 pm

I agree with some that the basic factory five string does not seem like it's worth the hassles involved(wide necks,different feel) but...when you put those five strings on a bass like the 4004 that originally came with four strings, now you have something completely different and dare I say....magical. And I never would have discovered this if it wasn't for Jeff Rath and Brian Crisman posting their views on five string conversions and 4004 models, there was no way I was going to make that leap on my own. As far as the benefits of that B string are concerned, I find myself using Db-F on the fat string plenty of times in the stuff I play to make it worth while for me, and it also makes a great place to anchor your thumb...

.

rikk · Post by **rikk** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:35 pm

I used a hipshot D-tuner on a couple of my 4001's before moving to the 5er. I had a 5er for 10+ years before moving to it as my main squeeze. I'm not much of a noodler and I found the low B (really the low D Db and the C notes) valuable in the way I play. Nobody NEEDS a 5er. You can play everything on a standard 4 string just in a higher register. You certainly get a cleaner more distinct sound that way. A 5er is very hard (at least for me) to get used to. Once I forced myself to ONLY play it I got used to it.

alan · Post by **alan** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:44 pm

OK, as for the 5 strings, my main goal was to be able to play with the band in drop D without detuning my 4 stringers, or use an octave pedal, which sounded like shimmering mud. So, it's really only used in those particular situations. My main player is my 06 4003, which gets about 85% of my attention. The TBird is a wonderful beast, and I would much prefer the neck thru version, but it only comes in the 4 string model. It's still quite nice, I must say, very beefy and alot of low mids, a nice change from the Rics, or even my Jazz bass. The overall build quality is very good, but not excellent. I've heard this is true of most Gibson USA products, sort of hit or miss. That's unfortunate, but it seems the trend most everywhere. The neck is thin and fast, just a bit wide, but string spacing is perfect, so that's the tradeoff. of course, the looks are pure rock, I got ebony, and it looks sweet next to the JG Ric and Geddy Jazz, three of a perfect pair. I appreciate all of your support, it was a tough choice to let that 620/12 go, but it was just sitting around, looking lonely. BTW, it will be the ONLY 5 stringer in my arsenal, until they bring back the 4004/5. Until then, thanks again.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:29 pm

This is a classic argument 5 vs 4 ... it is like flats vs rounds or picks vs fingers ... there is no right answer ... I like to get you 4 string types into at least considering using a 5 string bass ...

For me a bass with only 4 strings just feels wrong ... I have reprogrammed my brain to where 5 strings is normal and 4 is not ... it was hard work ... I was a die hard 4 banger ... but the 5th string was the beast way to play the songs that were on the set lists of several bands that I played in ...

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:17 pm

I try to put equal time into my playing of 4 and 5 string basses. I enjoy playing both and I like to be able to effectively use each in songs they fit best.

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:38 pm

Quote - "This is a classic argument 5 vs 4 ... it is like flats vs rounds or picks vs fingers ... there is no right answer ..." Amen to that. It applies to all of the above plus particular amps, makes of string, gauges of string, effects, cabs, makes of basses, you name it.

Rikk, I don't see how anyone can state without reservation that "nobody NEEDS a fiver", unless you're prepared to qualify that by saying nobody NEEDS four strings, three strings, ten strings, whatever. Does everybody need 20 frets, 21, frets, 24 frets etc? You need as many strings/frets as you use. What if you don't like the way a particular note sounds on a particular fret or on a particular string? You may need/want an option. A few years back I wrote an album's worth of material and wrote all the bass parts for six string bass, B to C. A while later I sold the six, because I wasn't playing that music anymore and felt I didn't "need" it. Unfortunately I recently started thinking about recording the material, and after trying the parts on my four realised the different tonality wasn't working. So for that material I "need" that low B to G at the very least (the high C maybe not, but Matt Garrison, John Pattituci and Janek Gwizdala seem to find a use for that ok).

Quote - "Shaun, I have seen just about every major band/artist in the world live in every type of venue, small and large. Going to see live bands is a big deal to me. I do a festival every year so I have seen most current bands as well. I have not yet seen a bass player playing a 5 stringer that has made me think "that sounds great" and I have seen dozens and dozens ! It must be me missing the point... or I have lost the bottom end of my hearing !"

I'm sure that's not the case Keith, but the crucial point is YOU haven't seen anyone playing a 5 stringer that YOU think sounds great. Your ears may work fine, but they're not somebody else's. Someone else make think some of the 5s you've heard sounded awesome, for whatever reason. You're certainly not wrong, with regards to your taste. But you're not necessarily right when it comes to someone else's taste, and that is all it comes down to, the fact that someone else may like the sound of something that you don't. I know people who think Ric basses, ALL Ric basses, sound awful. Doesn't mean I'M not going to use one.

I have to add to this that I personally love to see people pushing the boundaries, regardless of whether I do or not. If people didn't push the boundaries we wouldn't be playing the electric bass at all! In fact I know of plenty of people who think we "don't need" the electric bass (that's what you get from moving in certain Jazz circles all your life)....the argument if carried through to its logical (or possibly illogical!) conclusion can lead to places I don't think any of us would be happy to go.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:01 am

John Hall gave us a history lesson a couple years ago by telling us about the older double bass used in orchestras did not have a low E they only went down to a low A ... but as music was written that needed the low E it became the standard ...

as we see music written that needs notes lower than the Low E then bass players will have to make adjustments to produce those notes on their instruments ...

so we as bass players need to either detune, string BEAD, or play a 5 string bass, or play an octave higher to perform many of the songs that are written and performed today ...

my solution is the 5 string bass ...

rikk · Post by **rikk** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:56 am

Rikk, I don't see how anyone can state without reservation that "nobody NEEDS a fiver", unless you're prepared to qualify that by saying nobody NEEDS four strings, three strings, ten strings, whatever.

What I meant to say is Everybody doesn't need a 5 string. I love my 5er because I like the low notes, but that is the way I play. Squires, Lee, and McCartney play 4 string. They are great. They don't need a 5. Look at the banjo: 4 string tenor, 5 string, and the 6 string (gutjo) what's better and which one do you need? It all depends on the music you play. In no way an I dissing the 5er, after all it's may main bass, but in no way an I dissing the 4 either.

grayk · Post by **grayk** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:55 am

Oh Jeff, look what you started ! It is all said with tongue in cheek and should be taken as such as well !

I still dont see the need for 5 bangers though ! Juuuuust joking before any lips start trembling !

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:04 am

some players play an octave higher and turn the bass up to fill up the bottom end ...

I really like the sound of a low B string on a Ric bass ... I bring out the treble and mids to get a nasty snarly growl ... it is part of my signature sound ... that is why I sold all of those wonderful 4 string Ric basses I used to own ...

and sometimes Geddy and McCartney play a 5 ... Geddy also sometimes plays a jazz tuned DGCF because he can't sing some of the high notes in 2112 any more ...

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:09 am

Keith, that's the problem with these online Forums....sometimes you can't tell whether there's humour in the post. Sorry if I got all serious on you, or anyone else (like Rikk for instance; that was actually my point too!). I always get uptight about this sort of thing!