The best tube combo amp for a Ric?

[ken_j]

My local dealer still has a NOS Blue Angel unless it has sold in the last couple of weeks. I still have a Fender Deluxe Reverb RI available in the Estate Sale thread in the "Others"section. It is in new condition. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=382177

[BlueAngel]

The Hotrod/Blues Deluxes I wouldn't write off so quickly...they have a lot of fans and don't cost 3/4 of your instrument budget.

IMO

They're an ok amp and lots of people use them, but to my ears they are bright and hard, and if you ever have to work on one, they're a PITA to work on and not as reliable as the vintage style construction.

Actually I quite enjoy working on them, and don't find them a pain at all now that I'm familiar with how to get them apart most efficiently (and no, I don't mean with a chainsaw ) - I've had enough practice, anyway! But over the years they've improved the parts that caused most of the reliability problems with the earlier examples, and now I would say they're probably as good as - and maybe better than - any other amp at their price point and some that are more expensive.

It's certainly an amp which has had a very long production run almost unchanged in overall design and layout - unusual in the modern age - which has given time for the minor flaws to be ironed out. Fender claim that the Hotrod Deluxe is the most numerous tube amp ever made, and I don't doubt it - they would know, since the only other contender I can think of is the Silverface Twin Reverb.

I think the Blues sounds a bit better than the Hotrod - it really depends on whether you need the More Drive mode, most people don't and many never use the overdrive channel at all. It has a very poor reputation but actually I don't find it impossible to dial in a good sound - you just have to be careful how you turn the knobs, some of them are very sensitive, and it helps to start with the overdrive rather than the clean... which most people don't because the clean is so good that it's easy to try to optimise that first, but actually it's less touchy so compromising it slightly to get a much better overdriven sound works better. And if you really can't, they make a great platform for pedals.

[paologregorio]

The other guitarist in my band and I both played through a backline of Hotrod Deville 212s when we were in Chicago recently: http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0213200000 They sounded great! We didn't mess with the dirty channel for dist/OD, but pumping our pedals through the clean channel worked just fine.

If you have a big wad of cash and want to go stereo, buy a new Vox AC30 and a Fender Blackface `65 Twin Reverb reissue and use an ROS kit, provided your Rick has ROS...

I have one of each of these amps; they both sound great, and when I record I usually use both of them in stereo, though live it's usually one of the AC30s. The Twin has a really nice character to it though.

[sharkboy]

You could also consider finding one of the new THD combos. They are hard to find, but I believe they are vessels for any of their amps. I still have nothing but great things to say about my Flexi 50. It loves all of my guitars and if I want it to sound different, I just change some tubes, check the bias and go. With the easy-change tube options, it spans the greatest distance of any amp I've ever heard.

I haven't actually heard the new combo cab, but if it is anything like their regular speaker cabs, it is verah nahss.

[indianation65]

Addendum to my previous point and my fortitude in promoting the British KMD. It is a great sound amp. However, I just plugged in my Roland JC120. It's been a while since our last handshake. After playing my 330 through both channels, and adjusting this and that, I reminded myself how incredible it sounds, and "Yes," I say better then the Vox, which I've played, but do not own.
...Let the backlash begin! I stand ready, spear in hand...

[BlueAngel]

I just plugged in my Roland JC120. It's been a while since our last handshake. After playing my 330 through both channels, and adjusting this and that, I reminded myself how incredible it sounds

It's a classic sound for sure - certainly the only solid-state amp I can think of which would feature on a 'best amps ever' list.

It has also had an extremely long production run - longer than any other amp I know of... although there are in fact quite large variations internally despite them all looking virtually identical from the outside. Is yours a Japanese- or Italian-built one? (It should say on the back panel - I have no idea if the Italian ones were sold outside Europe.) I have one of each here for repair at the moment - both for minor faults, they're among the most reliable amps ever made too - and they're almost totally different inside. They sound somewhat different as well - as do the most recent Japanese-made ones, which I haven't seen inside yet, as they never seem to break down either.

[whojamfan]

I Ric-o-Sound my 360/12 between my AC30 and JC 120 and find the combination to be stellar!

[indianation65]

Mr. Angel,
Upon JC backside inspection, the plate states Made in the U.S.A. I bought it used in '87 from a "leather" pawn shop. My used, but real leather biker jacket looked very cool on the rack, but the JC by the window looked cooler. It called to me and $400 later, I believe was the price I paid, plus a jacket, and I was walking out the door, JC making it awkard! I have a serial number, and now I'm trying to date this amp. I've never known! Good stuff...
By the way, past bikes include a Huffy Mr. America, a motocross Red Line, two Raleighs and a Fugi-street!

[BlueAngel]

Upon JC backside inspection, the plate states Made in the U.S.A. ... I've never known!

Nor me!

It stands to reason I've never seen one though, since they were most likely never sold in Europe.

I wonder who Roland used to build them in the US? (In Italy I believe it was GEM, who Roland either owned at the time or later bought, I can't remember which.) And whether there is yet another constructional/tone difference...

Curiouser and curiouser!

[indianation65]

Mr. Angel,
I recently commented extensively about "tone" in another forum; still sifting through the ashes. I may reiterate here, when the time is right. Thanks brother...

[soundmasterg]

I could find out pretty easily where the JC-120's are made since I work for a company that is owned by Roland. I believe the Italian ones are made by a Roland owned factory over there. I'll post if I find out the answer.

They're a cool amp, but the feel factor you get with tube amps isn't there with the Roland solid state JC-120.

Greg

[indianation65]

Mr. Masterg,
What exactly is "feel" when it comes to any instrument? The topic of "tone" mentioned before may come up extensively after a future post that is coming. I am not saying you are right or wrong, we all know it's about individual taste. Good stuff...

[soundmasterg]

Yeah, everyone hears differently, and some people haven't been exposed to the same thing as others, so they may not be aware of an effect that one type of amp may have as opposed to another one. What I'm talking about as far as feel is concerned is that many solid state amps reproduce the sound very nicely on paper with the specs, and on a scope, without much distortion, but that doesn't translate to something the player will like in many cases. They "feel" sterile because they don't react as well to changes in attack that the player is making. Most tube amps will compress when the player digs into the strings harder, and this is a form of distortion that is occuring. If you're playing cleanly and you don't vary your picking pressure, then you may not notice the effect. Someone in the audience will probably never notice unless they have a very good ear and are a fellow musician. The end result is that when playing a responsive amp like a Vox AC30 or a Fender Deluxe Reverb, if you play louder or softer, the amp will respond differently to your input which makes it feel more alive. Its much the same as say a Fender Rhodes keyboard as compared to some run of the mill, modern Casio. The Rhodes will distort a bit if you hit the keys really hard, and the Casio always has the same output no matter what the input is. It just makes it more fun to play for some people, myself included. Part of this difference is due to the damping factor, which is how well the amp controls the speaker's movement. A tube amp will have a low damping factor, and this allows distortions to come into play more than a solid state amp where the transistors are directly coupled to the speaker for a good damping factor. Some of the original transistor amps like the Kustoms, Rickenbacker Trans-sonics, and Vox Super Beatles were made much the same as the tube amps of the time, subbing transistors for tubes, and some of them actually use an output transformer too. These particular solid state amps will have a lower damping factor, higher distortions, and a better "feel." They also cost more to make this way.

BTW, Roland used to make the JC120 amps in Japan completely. Then they switched production of the circuitry portion of the amplifier to Italy at the Roland Spa facility there, and they transport those finished amp chassis to Japan where they are put together with the rest of the amp. They have never made the JC120 in the US, though they did make the Cube series completely in the US at one point. They did do much the same thing they're doing now with the JC120 in the past and assembled them in the US, with the circuitry put together in Japan, and I would guess thats enough to get the made in USA tag though I don't know for sure.

Greg

[indianation65]

Upon further probing, I managed to find out my Roland JC 120 was made in July, 1984. My British KMD is an '85. I've since purchased other combos, but this is the backbone...

[goofyfoot]

Also, after gigging with the AC-30 quite a bit lately, I think I'm ready to start recommending the AC-15. The '30 is a heavy mofo.

Precisely why I dig my AC-15 TBR with a Weber AlNiCo Blue Dog. If I had an AC-30, I'd also score a dolly. Peace, out.....Goofyfoot.