Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Anyone use virtuoso polish ?

RobRick wrote:I polish my '74 4000 in Burgundyglo with a soft cloth and Pledge furniture polish. It has never looked better, and is in fantastic condition.

I do the same on my '02 4003 in Jetglo!

Tell me you're kidding...Pledge is another word for "silicone"...it has no wax, the vehicle is an emulsion of water and paint thinner, and it also yellows over time...It's got everything you don't want in a darned dangerous package, due to the propane, butane, and isobutane used in the propellant.

It's one of those dinosaur convenience products left over from the '60s that give quick results but have no benefits in the long run.

Virtuoso polish is odd stuff--limited distribution, a predictable marketing pitch, and copy written by a semi-literate (read: low-buck ad agency, or none at all) that is a mix of half-truths and sheer avoidance of the topic of what makes it better than other polishes?

Virtuoso's own website is down, so I copped this from the Web:

http://www.experiencedmusicalinstrument ... d_clea.htm

Ignoring the typos and bad reasoning, there's an all-too-transparent (pun???) attempt to imbue the stuff with a mystique (references to Virtuoso Guitar's dealing in "legendary" instruments, opens the written pitch), and then they link to reviews of the product, which were written by their own people as press release mumbo-jumbo. Hmmm. I smell other than "carnuba" here. (Actually, it's spelled "carnauba", but don't expect a company that sells wax to actually get that spelling right, right?)

Then the "stuff" gets thicker: They talk about "glazing". Now, that's a dead giveaway to one ingredient: polymers, which in a finish treatment product means silicone or a similar molecule. They claim a six-month-or-better life on the instrument (again, polymers, which oxidize much slower than natural oils and ingredients). They actually infer that building up a wax coating (as "carnuba" is intended to do in Zymol--how else to fill the microscratches in the surface?) is bad, then go on to talk about PVC bottles being bad, tell you that they fluorinate the bottle to counteract the bad effects, and hit you with arguments to justify their price--$10.00 for an unspecified amount, but it looks like about 3-4 ounces, judging from the closure on the bottle. Oddly, their bottle seems to be polyethylene, not PVC, but I'll take their word for it.

Would I use it? Nope. I'm suspecting petroleum distillates, polymers or silicones, and HYPE, like so many boutique guitar polishes.

Have I tried the stuff? Nope again, but as always they've got a bunch of satisfied users and testimonials galore. After trying literally hundreds of waxes and polishes over a few decades, I've learned (usually) to do some advance research, as there is, in fact, not a lot new in the wax and polish game. This seems to be a case of, "been there, done that", despite Virtuoso's claims of originality. I mean, c'mon, when they natter on about fluorinated PVC bottles, and don't tell you how big the package is or what's actually in the stuff, you can usually bet on snake oil being one major ingredient.

As I've said before, when I find something better than Zymol, I'll be on it like a hobo on a ham sandwich. Until then, I'm skeptical.

Oh, and their MSD sheet is impossible to track down, which is odd.

In the decorating trade pledge is my daily nightmare causes all sorts of problems i hate the stuff.People spend thousands of pounds on new woodwork and pay money to get it professionally treated to spray pledge over it.Id never use that product.Id rather use spit.

I just use my shirt....it is a thing to be played....

A hobo on a ham sandwich........
Brillant......

jingle_jangle wrote:

RobRick wrote:I polish my '74 4000 in Burgundyglo with a soft cloth and Pledge furniture polish. It has never looked better, and is in fantastic condition.

I do the same on my '02 4003 in Jetglo!

Tell me you're kidding...Pledge is another word for "silicone"...it has no wax, the vehicle is an emulsion of water and paint thinner, and it also yellows over time...It's got everything you don't want in a darned dangerous package, due to the propane, butane, and isobutane used in the propellant.

It's one of those dinosaur convenience products left over from the '60s that give quick results but have no benefits in the long run.

Virtuoso polish is odd stuff--limited distribution, a predictable marketing pitch, and copy written by a semi-literate (read: low-buck ad agency, or none at all) that is a mix of half-truths and sheer avoidance of the topic of what makes it better than other polishes?

Virtuoso's own website is down, so I copped this from the Web:

http://www.experiencedmusicalinstrument ... d_clea.htm

Ignoring the typos and bad reasoning, there's an all-too-transparent (pun???) attempt to imbue the stuff with a mystique (references to Virtuoso Guitar's dealing in "legendary" instruments, opens the written pitch), and then they link to reviews of the product, which were written by their own people as press release mumbo-jumbo. Hmmm. I smell other than "carnuba" here. (Actually, it's spelled "carnauba", but don't expect a company that sells wax to actually get that spelling right, right?)

Then the "stuff" gets thicker: They talk about "glazing". Now, that's a dead giveaway to one ingredient: polymers, which in a finish treatment product means silicone or a similar molecule. They claim a six-month-or-better life on the instrument (again, polymers, which oxidize much slower than natural oils and ingredients). They actually infer that building up a wax coating (as "carnuba" is intended to do in Zymol--how else to fill the microscratches in the surface?) is bad, then go on to talk about PVC bottles being bad, tell you that they fluorinate the bottle to counteract the bad effects, and hit you with arguments to justify their price--$10.00 for an unspecified amount, but it looks like about 3-4 ounces, judging from the closure on the bottle. Oddly, their bottle seems to be polyethylene, not PVC, but I'll take their word for it.

Would I use it? Nope. I'm suspecting petroleum distillates, polymers or silicones, and HYPE, like so many boutique guitar polishes.

Have I tried the stuff? Nope again, but as always they've got a bunch of satisfied users and testimonials galore. After trying literally hundreds of waxes and polishes over a few decades, I've learned (usually) to do some advance research, as there is, in fact, not a lot new in the wax and polish game. This seems to be a case of, "been there, done that", despite Virtuoso's claims of originality. I mean, c'mon, when they natter on about fluorinated PVC bottles, and don't tell you how big the package is or what's actually in the stuff, you can usually bet on snake oil being one major ingredient.

As I've said before, when I find something better than Zymol, I'll be on it like a hobo on a ham sandwich. Until then, I'm skeptical.

Oh, and their MSD sheet is impossible to track down, which is odd.

I actually do! My 4000 looks as good as ever, and so does my 4003.

But based on your entry, I will look into using something more friendly to the finish.

jingle_jangle wrote:

RobRick wrote:I polish my '74 4000 in Burgundyglo with a soft cloth and Pledge furniture polish. It has never looked better, and is in fantastic condition.

I do the same on my '02 4003 in Jetglo!

Tell me you're kidding...Pledge is another word for "silicone"...it has no wax, the vehicle is an emulsion of water and paint thinner, and it also yellows over time...It's got everything you don't want in a darned dangerous package, due to the propane, butane, and isobutane used in the propellant.

It's one of those dinosaur convenience products left over from the '60s that give quick results but have no benefits in the long run.

Virtuoso polish is odd stuff--limited distribution, a predictable marketing pitch, and copy written by a semi-literate (read: low-buck ad agency, or none at all) that is a mix of half-truths and sheer avoidance of the topic of what makes it better than other polishes?

Virtuoso's own website is down, so I copped this from the Web:

http://www.experiencedmusicalinstrument ... d_clea.htm

Ignoring the typos and bad reasoning, there's an all-too-transparent (pun???) attempt to imbue the stuff with a mystique (references to Virtuoso Guitar's dealing in "legendary" instruments, opens the written pitch), and then they link to reviews of the product, which were written by their own people as press release mumbo-jumbo. Hmmm. I smell other than "carnuba" here. (Actually, it's spelled "carnauba", but don't expect a company that sells wax to actually get that spelling right, right?)

Then the "stuff" gets thicker: They talk about "glazing". Now, that's a dead giveaway to one ingredient: polymers, which in a finish treatment product means silicone or a similar molecule. They claim a six-month-or-better life on the instrument (again, polymers, which oxidize much slower than natural oils and ingredients). They actually infer that building up a wax coating (as "carnuba" is intended to do in Zymol--how else to fill the microscratches in the surface?) is bad, then go on to talk about PVC bottles being bad, tell you that they fluorinate the bottle to counteract the bad effects, and hit you with arguments to justify their price--$10.00 for an unspecified amount, but it looks like about 3-4 ounces, judging from the closure on the bottle. Oddly, their bottle seems to be polyethylene, not PVC, but I'll take their word for it.

Would I use it? Nope. I'm suspecting petroleum distillates, polymers or silicones, and HYPE, like so many boutique guitar polishes.

Have I tried the stuff? Nope again, but as always they've got a bunch of satisfied users and testimonials galore. After trying literally hundreds of waxes and polishes over a few decades, I've learned (usually) to do some advance research, as there is, in fact, not a lot new in the wax and polish game. This seems to be a case of, "been there, done that", despite Virtuoso's claims of originality. I mean, c'mon, when they natter on about fluorinated PVC bottles, and don't tell you how big the package is or what's actually in the stuff, you can usually bet on snake oil being one major ingredient.

As I've said before, when I find something better than Zymol, I'll be on it like a hobo on a ham sandwich. Until then, I'm skeptical.

Oh, and their MSD sheet is impossible to track down, which is odd.

Yikes , ok Thank you for that , hmm how about
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Accessories ... olish.html


oh and what Zymol should I get ? I think they offer a few products . Thanks again

Well, again, if it was superior to Zymol, I'd be using it. All it takes is a bottle-sniff, and I know--it's got paint thinner in it. So it's not going to shine as well, by definition/composition, as Zymol.

Now, if Meguiar's would bring back "Medallion"--the water-based Medallion--I'd be there in a minute. But they won't, so I'm a Zymol fan.

Still not a stockholder, though...

I use globs of aerowax.(sic?) The fumes get me high!

just got this email , not sure who Paul is though

Dear Paul

Thank you for your interest in Virtuoso Premium Products. Silicone is not
an active ingredient in our products however our Virtuoso Premium Polish has
a trace amount of silicone in it.

Hope this helps you!

All the best,

Scott, I just got the same email.

Let me guess--you wrote them like I did, and they sent you a boilerplate letter without changing the name at the top...

Anyway, apparently my suspicion is justified.

haha so you are Paul ! wow I got your email , Hey Paul what Zymol product do you recommend for my shiny new Ric , I would love to score it online so please pass a link along if you have a favorite dealer . Thanks again !

I thought us Rock-N-Rollers were supposed to use dried beer with a splash of JD and an old smokey concert Tee!

fretless wrote:haha so you are Paul ! wow I got your email , Hey Paul what Zymol product do you recommend for my shiny new Ric , I would love to score it online so please pass a link along if you have a favorite dealer . Thanks again !

I heartily recommend Zymol Cleaner-Wax (light-blue color, in a plastic bottle, available at most auto stores and places like Wal Mart, K-Mart, and Target). Also, do use the SEARCH function on this site for tips on application. I'm going to post a sticky soon on this topic, so we'll all have it as reference.

I pursued the matter a bit more with Virtuoso. I asked, since they would not release the sheet, if they would confirm or deny the presence of three ingredients in their formula:

1. Petroleum distillate
2. Silicone
3. Polymers

The lady who initially answered my inquiry, kicked my note upstairs to Richard Powell, principal in The Virtuoso Group. Here's his reply:

Hello Paul,

No, they are not legally required to be in an open source location. While we do indeed have MSDS sheets, we only provide them when required by law (transit companies, certain exports, etc.).

I will confirm we use Petroleum distillates as the suspension formula in our cleaner.

If you are looking to delve into our proprietary information we are probably not the product for you. Our results, client list and caliber of guitars our products have protected over the years speak for themselves.

All the best,

Richard Powell

The Virtuoso Group, Inc.

My response is as follows:

Actually, Richard, confirming the presence or absence of silicones or polymers, gives me little precious insight into your "proprietary" formulas. Generally, as you no doubt know, it's the proportions of ingredients that count most. And you are permitted on an MSDS to classify an ingredient as "proprietary", as long as its degree of hazard and flammability are indicated. So you don't have to give anything away by releasing the sheet in open source.

Instead, I have an insight into your formula (which I could care less about--I'm not about to go into the "boutique wax" business to make my fortune...) which is more useful to me, than an MSDS. If you will neither confirm nor deny the presence of silicones or polymers in these products, but will confirm the presence of petroleum distillates, this is most likely because you've got a product that contains silicones and/or polymers.

The claims for long-lasting protection are in line with claims made by other manufacturers of finish care products containing these ingredients. Your refusal to confirm or deny, coupled with the absence of an MSDS in an open source location, only confirms to me that the ingredient that you are waffling on, is, in fact, silicone or a polymer, or both.

No problem, I say. As a luthier who specializes in exotic finishes and refinishes of Rickenbacker guitars and basses, and blogs extensively on this topic (17,000+ posts since 2005). I know now not to recommend your products to those who ask my advice on the matter.

Regards,

Paul Wilczynski

I use car wax (Turtle I think) and there is a three step polish kit fenderhas (I think made by Meguiar for them). These work very well. Please don't use fruniture polish - as Paul stated bad ,bad, bad.... I had a friend who did that years ago and really ick'ed up his acoustic Guild.....