Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

superdick2112 wrote:Joshua (and the rest of you experts), I want to keep the cap in my C64 and install a push/pull pot for a bit more versatility. Do you recommend the factory cap already in there, of is there a crunchier-sounding alternative?

I don't know of any alternatives - I had the push/pull pot installed in my C64 and love it. Like you I was simply looking for more versatility and the horseshoe soloed without the cap gives you a really nice and different tone when you want it.

ilan wrote:I think the cap was gone by 1985. When John Hall became CEO, this was one of the first things he did.

Hate the cap. So many 70's Rics were modded and routed for different pickups because owners thought their original pickup was too trebley and lacked bass frequencies. Had I known about the cap, I'd probably still have my first Ric ('74 Jetglo). My mission in life is to bypass as many 4001 caps as I can. Evil cap!

+1000

The cap is just annoying to my ears.

I tried to keep one 4001 with the cap in, but that ended up being the one that I never played. It's a great bass, and not playing it didn't make much sense, so I finally broke down and bypassed it.

I agree with Ilan though...SOOO many Rick basses wouldn't have been butchered if it weren't for that blasted thing.

And I've read Geddy interviews where he says that his tone used to be all treble, and Roger Glover interviews where he said that he "never could get a decent tone out of his 4001" (hence all of the mods), and the list goes on... So many sound men and guitar players over the years have hated "the Rick bass sound" and it's all because of that annoying little capacitor. I wonder how many more Rick basses would have been sold if Rick had dropped the cap 15 years earlier.

And turning up the bass knob on my amp did nothing but make my annoying, castrated tone more bassy!

But to each, his own...There are a thousand different ways to play a Rick bass, and different people prefer different tones.

For my style though (finger style, played over the bridge pickup; bridge pickup dominant in the blend) the choice is clear...And I'm SOOO happy that I learned how to bypass the cap from this forum. That is the single best piece of information I have ever learned here.

badeggs wrote: Need more bass? Try turning this up:

SCROLL-PANEL-m3-Front.jpg

If bass-cut was a desirable feature, you'd see more "bass" knobs on bass amps dialed all the way down. But they never are.

And you'd probably see more manufacturers today offering bass-cut option; but none of them do.

rickcrazy wrote:Ahh, the cap... The very heart of the real Rickenbacker tone, period.

So a 4000 lacks the heart of the real Rickenbacker tone?

Cap haters, I'm just curious, you have heard what it does in blend mode right? The tone completely changes (it gets "bigger" overall, and if you A-B it against the neck pickup alone, it has more treble character). The way some people talk about the 0.0047 uF cap solely as a way of "cutting bass" makes me wonder. It doesn't just "cut bass", it changes how the pickups "talk" to each other, and anyone with a push-pull setup can test this in a matter of seconds.

superdick2112 wrote:I want to keep the cap in my C64 and install a push/pull pot for a bit more versatility. Do you recommend the factory cap already in there, of is there a crunchier-sounding alternative?

I would just use the factory cap. Caps is caps, y'know? I have never heard substantive evidence or even weak evidence to show that some caps sound better than others. I buy Mallory caps for my projects because they tend to be reliable and are offered as the axial-lead type (like what RIC uses). The C64 I played was super hot as far as the Horseshoe was concerned so I can only imagine that without a cap it is going to sound like the gates of hell opening up (soloed). Definitely worth having in your toolkit... Also it would be interesting to hear how the blend mode would change since the pickups would comb filter and scoop the tone a little.

cassius987 wrote:Cap haters, I'm just curious, you have heard what it does in blend mode right? The tone completely changes (it gets "bigger" overall, and if you A-B it against the neck pickup alone, it has more treble character). The way some people talk about the 0.0047 uF cap solely as a way of "cutting bass" makes me wonder. It doesn't just "cut bass", it changes how the pickups "talk" to each other, and anyone with a push-pull setup can test this in a matter of seconds.

I'm not quite sure I know what "blend mode" is, but I do know that I had the cap in the circuit on my first 4001 for over 20 years and that I tried every possible knob and switch tweak available before arriving at the conclusion that my '87 4003S (which was not born with the cap) sounded vastly superior.

Blend mode = both pickups are on. With the cap in, you are going to hear a fuller sound, without, you will hear a scooped sound. Both are good and useable. I typically go with scooped for most music because that's also how Fender Jazzes are and they have set the musical trend by and large. For stuff that needs more grit I go with the fuller sound with the cap in the circuit. Again, the way to prove this to yourself is to install a push-pull.

cassius987 wrote:Blend mode = both pickups are on. With the cap in, you are going to hear a fuller sound, without, you will hear a scooped sound. Both are good and useable. I typically go with scooped for most music because that's also how Fender Jazzes are and they have set the musical trend by and large. For stuff that needs more grit I go with the fuller sound with the cap in the circuit. Again, the way to prove this to yourself is to install a push-pull.

Well to each his own, my man. I've heard recordings from some of you guys that play with the cap in and can make it sound good. But for me, it never did. I mean...listen to Chris Squire...there's some great tone (and he had the cap in AFAIK)...but I don't play like him.

My 4001's, 4001C64S, and 4005 all had the cap, and all of them sounded much better to me after I bypassed it. And my 2006 4003 with the push-pull...I couldn't for the life of me ever find a use for the tone of it with that knob pulled out. I've tried...I like to keep my Ricks stock or close to it, but that thing is just not for me.

I have no use for the cap when playing live. Recording is entirely different, where the cap can help get some nice classic Rick tones.

ilan wrote:I think the cap was gone by 1985. When John Hall became CEO, this was one of the first things he did.

Hate the cap. So many 70's Rics were modded and routed for different pickups because owners thought their original pickup was too trebley and lacked bass frequencies. Had I known about the cap, I'd probably still have my first Ric ('74 Jetglo). My mission in life is to bypass as many 4001 caps as I can. Evil cap!

I do not like the cap in my '75 4001. I have the tone switch to put it in or out but never put it in anymore.

You say po-tay-toe and I say pa-tah-toe.

Go plug in and play!

ilan wrote:If bass-cut was a desirable feature, you'd see more "bass" knobs on bass amps dialed all the way down. But they never are.

I'm not advocating adding it to basses in general, I'm saying it's in the original circuit on the old Ricks and it's part of why they sound the way they do, and I like that sound. It is a desirable feature - to me, in a 4001!

Any time I've played a Rick with the cap bypassed or cut I can't get "that sound." It's buried in there and it doesn't come out. Different strokes and all that, and as has been said it has a lot to do with where/how you play. But I love the cap, regardless of how many people ripped their 4001s to shreds in frustration. Personally I've never been frustrated getting a full, crunchy tone out of a capped bass - not thin at all, and certainly not castrated (or "capstrated," I suppose)!

But as John just said it really doesn't matter in the end. As long as we're all playing it's good either way...though I must say I do enjoy debating this point whenever it comes up!

I had a push-pull installed during the restoration of Frankenrick and my favoured tones are:

- Both pickups with cap;
- Scatterwound Toaster soloed;
- Bridge (70's spec ~ 7 kohms) soloed sans cap.

The bass loses a lot of tone and punch due to comb-filtering (particularly on frets 3 to 7 of the E string) with both pickups selected without the cap engaged. With the cap engaged, it sounds brilliant right across the board.

Could my choice of strings (TI flats) contribute to the phenomenon?

cassius987 wrote:Blend mode = both pickups are on. With the cap in, you are going to hear a fuller sound, without, you will hear a scooped sound. Both are good and useable. I typically go with scooped for most music because that's also how Fender Jazzes are and they have set the musical trend by and large. For stuff that needs more grit I go with the fuller sound with the cap in the circuit. Again, the way to prove this to yourself is to install a push-pull.

antipodean wrote: I had a push-pull installed during the restoration of Frankenrick and my favoured tones are:

- Both pickups with cap;
- Scatterwound Toaster soloed;
- Bridge (70's spec ~ 7 kohms) soloed sans cap.

The bass loses a lot of tone and punch due to comb-filtering (particularly on frets 3 to 7 of the E string) with both pickups selected without the cap engaged. With the cap engaged, it sounds brilliant right across the board.

Could my choice of strings (TI flats) contribute to the phenomenon?

No. It does. On all basses. Not just Ricks. It also happens on Jazz basses, P-J configured basses, and clones. I've even put a .01 cap inline to the bridge pickup on my custom bass with fanned frets that uses an HB-1 pickup in roughly the P (d-g segment) position and a DiMarzio Ultra-Jazz neck pickup (narrowed bridge) in the "standard" J position, both rotated to match the fanning.

Folks, instead of hating the cap, just install the push-pull and bypass it. You can install it either way, with either the push or the pull to your desired position. Or if you're that adamant, just install an HB-1 and lose the neck pickup, turning the bass effectively into a 4000. With the mid push of a 15kohm pickup with a small aperture, you'll literally be in the "driver's" seat.

I have two basses. A 4003 that I use a lot and a 4001 (with cap in place) that I use a bit less. I tried my 4001 with the cap bypassed and I hated the fact that it no longer gave me the clank and clunk that I love. These two basses are able to provide me with every sound that I have come to expect from a Rickenbacker bass.

Bottom line: My 4001 will stay as it came from the factory. To me it is a musicians tool and a very good one.

On my '73 4001FL, I think the cap is great. WIth the clarity of the 1/2-toaster providing a solid low end, I really like the difference in the bridge PU. Even moreso in R-O-S mode where I want as much tonal separation as I can get. I actually prefer the 4001FL sound to the 4003FL sound in R-O-S mode. And, of course, there's always the 4-band EQ knobs plus contour on the bridge PU amp. I've found that, if I want to, I can more or less add back in the hot kick of the 4003 bridge PU sound, but I can't add in the same bite of the cap-in setting on my LM 250.