A classic bass versus a modern masterpiece.

[mhalstead]

I've done limited playing in "good" (e.g expensive) studios, but I can confirm that most engineers seem to prefer a Fender simply because their "default bass" settings are designed to work with the harmonic content of the fender, which IMO is weaker in fundamentals than the Rick. In one instance, the engineer worked with me and got a great sound. in another the engineer kept whispering in the drummer's ear (who was paying for the session)that I was wasting his money by trying to get a sound on the rick, when he could get a perfect sound immediately if I'd just get my p-bass out of the car. The atmosphere rapidly turned bad for no good reason whatsoever except the curse of "engineers ego," the logic of which I would describe as follows:

[1] the sound of what comes out of the studio reflects personally on my skill as an engineer;
[2] therefore I must make it sound "good"
[3] what sounds good to my ears is basically the genre of music I like, therefor I will try and make the recording sound like something I personally like.

Trying to record punk rock in studios in the lat 70's and early 80's demonstrated this to me - a number of basically well meaning engineers ruined what we were doing by trying to "help"because their idea of a sound that brought credit to the studio was a Steely Dan recording. This is, of course, entirely true if you are a "Steely Dan type band," but totally infuriating if you want to sound like the Ramones!

[antonius]

This all rings true to me. In about 1990 I went into a studio and recorded my 4001 miked up through some lovely warm old tube amp. The next time I went in the same studio with the same band, being young, inexperienced and naive, I was persuaded to play a precision bass (the first time I'd ever played one) straight into the desk. The engineer was happy, it saved some time and it was easy to mix but the results were dull and lacking character. I wouldn't let that happen now!

[pag]

Dont get me started on sound men....some are great but some of them are as bad as Djs..........
Sound guys at gigs are the worst for messing the bass guitarist about when you are getting your onstage sound accross if it isnt a dull background thud from a Precision.
I remember doing a small venue with a 60s band called The Casuals using my RM DA24 through an Ampeg Portaflex.
We liked the bit of top end click with the bass sound to give it that 60s feel but the sound guy said "cant you just make it sound like a bass?" ha! I ask you,a 1964 Rick through an Ampeg how can that be wrong? I had a 73 Jazz Bass with almost the same sound and engineers had no problem with it.
I think you guys are right that engineers see something different coming out of the case and take an instant dislike to the guy (us) thats making him do abit of work.
Even recently in September with my Yes tribute show I had a "do" with the foh sound engineer at a major venue in Merseyside who tried to get my SVT stack so quiet onstage that our drummer who was right next to it couldnt hear me at all.
To cure that he then wanted to put the bass guitar through the monitors which sounded terrible as all I could hear was the overspill from the drum monitors.
When I said that the sound of the Ampeg was what I needed to hear onstage he got all arsey with me.
I hired a guy to do a three camera shoot of the show and being busy with the soundcheck I didnt catch up with him until just before we went on.
It turned out that the sound guy made him set up on the first tier balcony because he didnt want to have him by the desk so we had no feed from the soundboard!
I found out during the intermission that this sound guy had been called out because the guy we were originally supposed to have (a big Yes fan too) was doing a BBC show out of town.
Basically this guy we ended up with (and whos wages we were paying) would rather have been home watching X Factor than trying to mix something as complicated as a Yes show.

[coolingitdown]

Well, since you mentioned that your singer worked at Fernandes . . . there is the possibility that I did indeed exhibit a less than professional situation with them once.

Perhaps 20 years ago, they had a small booth near ours at the Frankfurt Musik Messe. They put out on display a direct Model 325 copy; I in turn provided them with a copy of the trademark registration and politely asked them to remove it and they did put it away.

When I came by later, it was back out, so I spoke with a police officer (trademark infringement is a criminal act in Germany) who asked them to take it down and again they did.

But, of course, it appeared again at some point. I found "Mr. Fernandes", actually a little Japanese man, picked up the guitar, and in not so polite words told him exactly where in his body I was going to install it if I saw it again. There was some pantomime involved since he didn't speak much English. He was quite terrified.

Later that day, just as I was exiting the bathroom, he was coming in; when he saw me, he turned around and ran away, so I hope he didn't have an urgent need.

Haha...that's a great story, John!

I can see why Fernandes might have some bad blood, then. But what they were doing was inexcusable, especially in light of the fact that they were asked to remove the display. I believe that your story does much to shed some light on why a former Fernandes employee would hold such opinions of RIC in spite of the fact that said opinions are contrary to just about everything I've heard about RIC as a company (all good things).

I was skeptical of what my singer had been saying about RIC, and, I believe, justifiably so.

[cassius987]

Most gossip about any music company tends to be wrong IME. Ask any dealer any question about any manufacturer not relating intimately to the instruments they stock and the most common answer I get is "I don't know," second most common is some gossip-y BS. I at least appreciate the honesty of "I don't know". What's the worst is when they volunteer this stuff on a whim because you bring the instrument up. I have heard some pretty wacky stuff about Rickenbacker and lots of other dealers too because some guy at a mom & pop or a Guitar Center was probably taking a swig of something on each of his breaks. (By the way, Wildwood Guitars in Louisville, CO is a stand-up place where not an ill word seems to be spoken of anyone. I love that place.)

[8mileshigher]

This is a very enjoyable thread... lot's of great expressionism and humor in your phraseology and some classic stories were posted by several of you !!!

[coolingitdown]

second most common is some gossip-y BS.

And that's exactly what I have always thought my singer was spouting about RIC.

That aside, I agree on all points, Joshua. It seems very childish, but it seems to happen a lot.

[johnallg]

Well, since you mentioned that your singer worked at Fernandes . . . there is the possibility that I did indeed exhibit a less than professional situation with them once.

Perhaps 20 years ago, they had a small booth near ours at the Frankfurt Musik Messe. They put out on display a direct Model 325 copy; I in turn provided them with a copy of the trademark registration and politely asked them to remove it and they did put it away.

When I came by later, it was back out, so I spoke with a police officer (trademark infringement is a criminal act in Germany) who asked them to take it down and again they did.

But, of course, it appeared again at some point. I found "Mr. Fernandes", actually a little Japanese man, picked up the guitar, and in not so polite words told him exactly where in his body I was going to install it if I saw it again. There was some pantomime involved since he didn't speak much English. He was quite terrified.

Later that day, just as I was exiting the bathroom, he was coming in; when he saw me, he turned around and ran away, so I hope he didn't have an urgent need.

This is the best and funniest post on RRF, period, bar none!!!

[jps]

Do you mean this is funnier than Ben saying he's going to turn RIC into a chocolate chip factory?

[johnallg]

Do you mean this is funnier than Ben saying he's going to turn RIC into a chocolate chip factory?

Yeah, I think so.

[beatbyrd]

Do you mean this is funnier than Ben saying he's going to turn RIC into a chocolate chip factory?

If Ben ever does that, the jetglo fans will demand that he really scorches some of the batches.....

[bluewhale]

I recorded with my '78 4001 a few times. One of those times an engineer saw me warming up and asked "Stereo bass?" I nodded yes, and he came back with a Y-cable for me.

[coolingitdown]

I recorded with my '78 4001 a few times. One of those times an engineer saw me warming up and asked "Stereo bass?" I nodded yes, and he came back with a Y-cable for me.

Awesome!

[johnallg]

I recorded with my '78 4001 a few times. One of those times an engineer saw me warming up and asked "Stereo bass?" I nodded yes, and he came back with a Y-cable for me.

Now he was a good recording engineer! A facilitator.

[mhalstead]

Pete Greenwood - What a Horror story! Although I play, I've probably spent more time behind a desk at gigs than on stage, and I almost NEVER have problems with a bass player,and never advise them what to do with their amp, unless they are bottoming out their speakers by inappropriate volume or EQ

Now, guitarists are another question..... An interpretation guide is required to translate "guitarist-speak" into "soundman" Examples:

"I cant get my tone unless my 100w marshall is turned up to 11" - Translation - my mom/landlord/neighborhood association won't let me turn up this huge amp I purchased in anticipation of the stadium gigs I thought we'd be playing.

"Our fans expect us to be really loud, why are you making us sound wimpy" - Translation - the two girlfriends, one brother, and the faithfull roadie that we brought with us, are loyal enough to suffer hearing damage for the sake of our egos.

"How can it be too loud, I can barely hear it on stage" - Translation - I'm using a powerful 2X12 combo amp, without a stand, placed two inches from my feet.

"Why is the other guitar so much louder than mine?" - Translation - you have failed to appreciate the social status of that other guitar player within the band and mix accordingly. This is MY band, I am the star.

"No problem, I'll turn it down" - Translation - I'm going to turn the volume knob on the guitar down to 5, both of us knowing full well that I'm going to turn it bak to 10 as soon as the soundcheck is finished.

I'm sure there are many others that should be combined into a useful guitarist-to-soundman dictionary.