Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I think Ted has used those under Ric 4001 neck pickups to make their field stronger.

Yes. I put NIB's under the existing rubber magnet on 70's hi-gains neck pickups. It is a great, reversible mod. The magnet pushes the balls-O-meter to 11 and makes my '80 4001 sound like my newer 4003's. Plenty of low end and the pickups are better balanced.

Are you happy with the sustain?

There's a point where too high of a flux density, whether by quantity or focus, simply exerts so much pull that the string doesn't want to move much. I laugh when I see certain websites or people talking about gazillion gauss pickups.

For sure, excessive field is bad for sustain. It is best to use a thin NIB for this application. When the NIB is spaced away by the existing magnet, the field does not reduce the sustain much or at all. I could just remove the flexible magnet and replace it with something else but that mod would be harder to reverse and there is always a risk of breaking the plastic magnet in the process.

I laugh when I see certain websites or people talking about gazillion gauss pickups.

When discussing conventional pickups ... thats valid.

But when discussing horseshoe pickups and other "surround field" units (Fender Trapazoids/Boxcars and Supro String thrus ... nope.

You are dealing with a unit that exerts vector forces from above the strings .. as well as ... from below the strings.

When the string height is adjusted properly ... these vectors basically cancel each other out ...

Leaving the string free to vibrate ... virtually uneffected by the "pull" of the magnet.

Yet the coil gets bathed with a some serious "juice" ... which translates to a crisp, clear, overtone ladden output.

My "MRI" assembly (not a horseshoe) ... which is my best work yet ... generates a 800+ gauss mid-gap flux density ... and its sustain is unmatched (I have 22 Ricky Steels)...

At a recent HSGA (Hawaiian Steel Gutar Association) convention ... I had the honor of putting one of my cast steels equipped with a neodymium based horseshoe magnet (about 500 gauss ... mid-gap) ... up against one of Dick McIntire's personal A25s (with the fat 3/8" shoes) ...

No one laughed ... just alot of big smiles from guys who were around when McIntire was playin'.

But this is the bass section ...

I will say that I had a heck of a time gettin' the NIBs to behave properly for bass guitars ...

Y'alls strings are soooo big ... they kept sendin' my prototypes back sayin' ... too strong ... too strong ... too strong

Heck, I musta made 10 protos ... till I got an "Okie Dokie" ... and that was in the very weak 100 gauss range.

So for basses .. and them big ole strings ... yeah, my ultra high field magnets were not usable ...

But on a steel guitar or slide guitar ... no laughin' ... just alot of ... Ohhhhh thats nice.

Mr. Hall ... I am in "AWE" of Rickenbachers horeshoe pickup ... and Rickenbacher's Steel Guitars. Always have been ...

With that I'll say Aloha ...

That makes sense as the pull is exerted from opposing sides. It seems that the movement of the strings from the magnetic field would be somewhat cancelled. There would some asymmetry because the strings are closer to one pole than the other.

The pole pieces act as conduits ... pulling up lines of force from the bottom flange of the magnet ...

On steels ... there is a sweet spot ... about 2/3 from the upper flange (inner surface) of the magnet ... and about 1/3 from the pole piece ...

With our new "MRI" ... no pole pieces ... so the strings sit "smack dab" in the middle of the field ...

Sorry ... I couldn't resist ...

Aloha

Thanks for sharing all of that Rick. That kind of thing is always interesting to me. It sounds like you have significantly improved that old design and extended it's practical life. That is very cool. I have a soft spot for the design and I love the sound of my old horseshoe bass pickup. I prefer the understring types for my everyday playing but the old one is great when I feeling retro or want a Squire-like sound. I made a few bass pickups using old shoes from lap steels. It is an expensive way to do it but there are few options otherwise. I noticed that if I use a coil from a 70's hi-gain the polarity on the leads has to be reversed to get it to play in phase with the neck pickup. Why does this happen?

Quote
>As far as the history of magnets goes ... cobalt was first added to tungsten steel ... to dramatically increase its coercive force ... in 1917.<

Ok, so maybe the info I have on the time frame of cobalt magnets refers to the practice of combining samarium and cobalt (transition metal with a rare earth metal) and not simply adding cobalt to a steel alloy.

Rick, you were saying that the NIB can be too strong when used for understring pickups. Do you think it might work a little better if you had a sidewinder pickup instead of a conventional type? I was thinking that since the magnet would be sideways, the field wouldn't choke the strings as easily?

Mr. Hall, you were talking about high gauss pickups and how they can choke the strings....I was wondering if you could tell me if the RIC 230 series pickups with the samarium cobalt magnets have high gauss/flux density? I love how powerful they are.

Quote:
And the "green thing" (not to be confused with the Forum's "Green Monster") is called a CS-74. You see the black swirly marks on the bass body?

They spell out "CS" Not many people notice that.

Back when I worked for a Music Store here in Connecticut, on of the "Reps" had to sell off a couple bass guitars he had (a product line he was not doing anymore) I had my choice of a Black Sparkle or White CS-74 Mouradian... I took the White CS-74, owned it for about 4 years then, like an IDIOT SOLD IT!!! Mine did not have the black "swirl" marks. Yes, Jim Mouradian did tell me the same thing, it spells "C-S".
What a dumb thing I did by selling that Bass...

Greg, I'm glad you asked how we avoided the magnetic string pull problem on the Samarium Cobalt units.

These pickups have two knife-edge apertures such that there is a very strong field slicing across the string but not for a very wide lateral segmement of the string. The field is then directed by the poles so it widens as it crosses the coil.

This design minimizes the pull on the string since it's such a small slice, but the field distubance in the coil is quite large, giving the largest output.

The problem with a very strong horseshoe is as stated above: if the string isn't precisely centered in the field (and it never is) that non-symettrical force from all sides is bound to slow down the string vibration.

Think of the magnetic flux lines as a million invisible little elastic bands stretched between the magnet and poles over to the string that are all fighting to pull on that string.

Thank you for the quick answer Mr. Hall. Were your comments about the single coil 230 pickups AND the humbucker ones, or just the humbucker ones? I remember you saying they were both pretty quiet as far as hum level is concerned. I haven't taken mine out yet, so I'm not sure which ones I have in mine. (1989 230)