Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

scotty wrote:

ajish4 wrote:Freaking guitarists ALWAYS get the new toys!

Thats because were better than the bass players

Cheeky SOB.

sloop_john_b wrote:I don't see the need for a Custom Shop when vintage Ricks are still affordable. We're not talking about a '57 Strat here.

Maybe you're satisfied with vintage instruments but lots of folks here are not.

We'd like new, truly original Rickenbacker instruments. Not some old one. (Well, really I'd like both!)

I'd like one each of a 350V89, and a 350SH-Spec and JBLE-prototype guitars, plus a 3503 bass (a 350-style body bass with triangle fretboard inlays and double binding). Thanks to one great luthier I'll soon have two of those, and in not too long, a third. I only wish that Rickenbacker could somehow call them their own.

Having a Custom Shop needn't cost Rickenbacker a dime, and it could change their somewhat stodgy image into something more interesting and attractive. It could be a lab for new ideas. And could even bring in a small amount of income.

LenMinNJ wrote:

sloop_john_b wrote:I don't see the need for a Custom Shop when vintage Ricks are still affordable. We're not talking about a '57 Strat here.

Maybe you're satisfied with vintage instruments but lots of folks here are not.

We'd like new, truly original Rickenbacker instruments. Not some old one. (Well, really I'd like both!)

http://davisguitarworks.com/site/index.php

johnhall wrote:Unfortunately, many people here simply do not understand what 100% capacity means and the implications thereof in a business. The case for filling in some other important markets, however, is quite compelling for the long term health of the business.

I've worked in finance 11 years and I agree completely, sustained moderate growth and continued demand are the only way to go. Any business has to survive peaks & valleys. Expand too quickly or saturate a market and those dips can be leathal. Please don't take my post as any kind of criticism in your business plan, I think RIC's reputation attests to the fact that you get it right. Integrity and dedication to quality is sadly rare in any business.

Not to get too far off-topic...

LenMinNJ wrote: Have you considered a Rickenbacker Custom Shop that allows that handful of independent luthiers to create truly custom Rickenbackers with the factory's approval?

I'm going to guess this hasn't happened because the parties involved -- the luthiers you mention by name, and RIC -- are pretty satisfied with their business volume in its current state. This topic has arisen before...

sloop_john_b wrote:I don't see the need for a Custom Shop when vintage Ricks are still affordable. We're not talking about a '57 Strat here.

I agree with John. Even if you don't want a stock vintage instrument: it's pretty economical (when compared to Fender's Custom Shop pricing) to buy an abused RIC, send it to one of the renowned luthiers which frequent this and the official RIC forum, and have them make your dream come true. Sure, it's not going to come with some fancy certificate (which matters to some people), but the results might blow your mind. Some people have even purchased new (or, from earlier in this very thread, limited edition) instruments from RIC to have them customized; I'll bet even these people saved over Fender Custom Shop pricing. I would certainly be willing to bet that Eddie saved a few grand over the purchase of a "real" 1993 in cherry condition, even after buying a limited edition RIC and having it refinished.

(As if frugality was an issue for those folks, but are "custom" instruments really ever about value, or are they more about just getting what you want?)

Let's put it this way:


(RIC doesn't do tortoise, and TRCs are tightly-controlled.)

So ... is there a RIC custom shop? No, not "officially"...

sloop_john_b wrote: http://davisguitarworks.com/site/index.php

Yeah, let's not forget about this, which is the best way to get yourself a Rutherford-style double-neck.

Love it!

RIC_FACTORY wrote:As much as I would love to leave the monotony of our current lineup and do a proper RM re-issue and perhaps 5 string bass model, I really enjoy the fact that people in previously unserviced regions will finally have access to our guitars. I also look forward to the special models for France and Benelux, we have yet to figure that one out, but once we do, it will happen fast.

A few months back, I got into some trouble for questioning the Ric Corporation's corporate and business strategy - which, of course, is really none of my business. However, at the risk of offending John and/or Ben Hall and others, I will make some further comments on this thread :

Firstly, I think that the proposal to create a 'Custom Shop' range of Rickenbackers is entirely flawed. Ric guitars are already manufactured to the highest standards of design and build quality (for example, have you ever needed to adjust the intonation of a new Ric), so why market some Ric models as if they are improvements on the stock range? In short, I believe that the 'Custom Shop' output of Fender and Gibson are hugely overhyped and simply devalues their core product.

I can understand why the Ric Corporation is keen to develop new markets both in Europe and beyond. However, this is not as straightforward as it might appear. I live in the UK, but as a citizen of the European community, I can buy a guitar in Germany, France, Belgium or wherever just as easily as I can elsewhere in the EU - no limits on trade, no additional VAT (sales tax) or Duty payable - which is the whole point of the 'Common Market'. So, if the Ric Corp start to produce 'special models' for France & Benelux, I and other UK residents will simply buy these direct from the relevant EU dealers, at the expense of the UK dealer network - which seems somewhat counter-productive to the objective of growing the overall market! Also, please note that any attempt to restrict sales from one European country to another would be a breach of European legislation and therefore illegal.

Incidentally, my current Ric collection includes guitars (and one Mando) which were bought in Ireland, France, Germany and Holland - all imported just as easily as if I had bought them in the UK.

This then raises the question as to why the Ric Corporation even needs regional distributors? The major prestigious motor manufacturers in the world (Mercedes, BMW, Audi-Volkswagen, etc) abandoned regional distributors years ago and now supply direct to their dealer network, thereby cutting out the middleman and keeping the retail price of their products as competitive as possible - so, why not Rickenbacker? OK, there are issues about warranty, spares, etc, but surely one Rickenbacker off-shoot based in Europe and another based in Asia (each owned by Rickenbacker US) would be able to service all dealer and customer requirements in these geographical areas?

My final comments relate to 'special', vintage and re-issue Rics. IMHO, there are a more than enough vintage and discontinued Rics out there to meet the needs of most RRF enthusiasts and collectors - although, I accept that unfortunately many of these guitars are outrageously over-priced. Personally, I have no desire to own some beat-up mid-1960s 450 or 360 with major play wear or structural issues, but I have had great fun completing my collection of discontinued Rics 650s and acquiring some of the fantastic 'Colours of the Year' such as Desert Gold and Blueburst, which are no longer available.

Besides, tracking then down is all part of the fun!

DriftSpace wrote: Some people have even purchased new (or, from earlier in this very thread, limited edition) instruments from RIC to have them customized; I'll bet even these people saved over Fender Custom Shop pricing. I would certainly be willing to bet that Eddie saved a few grand over the purchase of a "real" 1993 in cherry condition, even after buying a limited edition RIC and having it refinished.

Absolutely correct. The cheapest vintage 1993's are in the $12k to $14k range and those cheap (if you can call that cheap!) guitars will have multiple "issues". An example in very good and structurally sound original condition will be significantly higher than that....if you can ever find one. One of the biggest problems with any 1964/5 made Rick 12 string is that it will almost certainly either need a neck reset or have already had one (or more) with an accompanying partial or full refin. By modding the white guitars I got the best of several worlds....1) a guitar which is in mint cosmetic and structural condition, 2) a guitar which is very similar to original 1993 construction (i.e. X-braced '60's style body and an early pattern neck profile which give similar tone and playability to an original), and 3) to your point, all of that at a price point which is actually more than few grand cheaper than even the cheapest of originals. Having said all that, I would still like an original

redamber wrote:
I live in the UK, but as a citizen of the European community, I can buy a guitar in Germany, France, Belgium or wherever just as easily as I can elsewhere in the EU - no limits on trade, no additional VAT (sales tax) or Duty payable - which is the whole point of the 'Common Market'. So, if the Ric Corp start to produce 'special models' for France & Benelux, I and other UK residents will simply buy these direct from the relevant EU dealers, at the expense of the UK dealer network

Hush now lets see what they get and compare the UK market later.Rossetti can deal with it

LenMinNJ wrote:I'd like one each of a 350V89, and a 350SH-Spec and JBLE-prototype guitars, plus a 3503 bass (a 350-style body bass with triangle fretboard inlays and double binding). Thanks to one great luthier I'll soon have two of those, and in not too long, a third. I only wish that Rickenbacker could somehow call them their own.

Does this mean that you have a luthier who is modifying Rickenbacker guitars to meet your specs, or that he is building these instruments from scratch?

redamber wrote:Firstly, I think that the proposal to create a 'Custom Shop' range of Rickenbackers is entirely flawed.

Just to be clear, this was not our proposal and we have no such plans nor does it make much sense for us at the moment.

redamber wrote:I and other UK residents will simply buy these direct from the relevant EU dealers, at the expense of the UK dealer network . . .

Knock yourself out. The market will pretty well take care of itself.

redamber wrote:This then raises the question as to why the Ric Corporation even needs regional distributors? The major prestigious motor manufacturers in the world (Mercedes, BMW, Audi-Volkswagen, etc) abandoned regional distributors years ago and now supply direct to their dealer network, thereby cutting out the middleman and keeping the retail price of their products as competitive as possible - so, why not Rickenbacker?

Having owned a U.K. company previously, you can be assured I will NEVER EVER own an EU based company again. Those that complain about our laws and business climate in the USA have never owned a business elsewhere before.

redamber wrote:

RIC_FACTORY wrote:As much as I would love to leave the monotony of our current lineup and do a proper RM re-issue and perhaps 5 string bass model, I really enjoy the fact that people in previously unserviced regions will finally have access to our guitars. I also look forward to the special models for France and Benelux, we have yet to figure that one out, but once we do, it will happen fast.

A few months back, I got into some trouble for questioning the Ric Corporation's corporate and business strategy - which, of course, is really none of my business. However, at the risk of offending John and/or Ben Hall and others, I will make some further comments on this thread :

Firstly, I think that the proposal to create a 'Custom Shop' range of Rickenbackers is entirely flawed. Ric guitars are already manufactured to the highest standards of design and build quality (for example, have you ever needed to adjust the intonation of a new Ric), so why market some Ric models as if they are improvements on the stock range? In short, I believe that the 'Custom Shop' output of Fender and Gibson are hugely overhyped and simply devalues their core product.

I can understand why the Ric Corporation is keen to develop new markets both in Europe and beyond. However, this is not as straightforward as it might appear. I live in the UK, but as a citizen of the European community, I can buy a guitar in Germany, France, Belgium or wherever just as easily as I can elsewhere in the EU - no limits on trade, no additional VAT (sales tax) or Duty payable - which is the whole point of the 'Common Market'. So, if the Ric Corp start to produce 'special models' for France & Benelux, I and other UK residents will simply buy these direct from the relevant EU dealers, at the expense of the UK dealer network - which seems somewhat counter-productive to the objective of growing the overall market! Also, please note that any attempt to restrict sales from one European country to another would be a breach of European legislation and therefore illegal.

Incidentally, my current Ric collection includes guitars (and one Mando) which were bought in Ireland, France, Germany and Holland - all imported just as easily as if I had bought them in the UK.

This then raises the question as to why the Ric Corporation even needs regional distributors? The major prestigious motor manufacturers in the world (Mercedes, BMW, Audi-Volkswagen, etc) abandoned regional distributors years ago and now supply direct to their dealer network, thereby cutting out the middleman and keeping the retail price of their products as competitive as possible - so, why not Rickenbacker? OK, there are issues about warranty, spares, etc, but surely one Rickenbacker off-shoot based in Europe and another based in Asia (each owned by Rickenbacker US) would be able to service all dealer and customer requirements in these geographical areas?

My final comments relate to 'special', vintage and re-issue Rics. IMHO, there are a more than enough vintage and discontinued Rics out there to meet the needs of most RRF enthusiasts and collectors - although, I accept that unfortunately many of these guitars are outrageously over-priced. Personally, I have no desire to own some beat-up mid-1960s 450 or 360 with major play wear or structural issues, but I have had great fun completing my collection of discontinued Rics 650s and acquiring some of the fantastic 'Colours of the Year' such as Desert Gold and Blueburst, which are no longer available.

Besides, tracking then down is all part of the fun!

A lot of very good comments James.

I completely agree regarding the distribution points. I can't see how stand alone distributors in France or Germany can significantly boost sales volumes in those territories given the pre-existing freedom of movement of goods within the EU which means German and French (or any other EU citizens) can already buy from UK dealers. The only logical way French and German distributors/dealers could boost overall EU volume is by selling at significantly lower price points than the current UK official dealers have been doing which, as you point out, would cut the feet from under the UK business as people like you and I will just stop buying from Sound Affects/GuitarGuitar and buy from Germany instead....net result, a decrease in revenue/profit per unit on those cannibalised sales. Maybe I'm missing something here in the business plan logic, but at first sight it seems counterproductive. Having said that, if the real plan here is to screw Rosetti and lower official Rickenbacker street prices right across the EU, I'm certainly not complaining.

I continue to marvel at the 82 year Rickenbacker history of making fine guitars and basses in the United States. As long as I am able to discuss Rickenbackers I expect to see my life half full. Sometimes rather than trying to relive the magic of yesteryear or fanticizing about the magic of the future we lose sight of the magic that is! A special thanks to The Factory.

admin wrote:I continue to marvel at the 82 year Rickenbacker history of making fine guitars and basses in the United States. As long as I am able to discuss Rickenbackers I expect to see my life half full. Sometimes rather than trying to relive the magic of yesteryear or fanticizing about the magic of the future we lose sight of the magic that is! A special thanks to The Factory.

Well said Peter! It is a gift -- that's why it's called the present.

admin wrote:I continue to marvel at the 82 year Rickenbacker history of making fine guitars and basses in the United States. As long as I am able to discuss Rickenbackers I expect to see my life half full. Sometimes rather than trying to relive the magic of yesteryear or fanticizing about the magic of the future we lose sight of the magic that is! A special thanks to The Factory.

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