>>>Nobody's claiming to "have all the answers", least of all Dane.
Paul.... what I'm reacting to is his seeming inability to leave his political ideology out of a Rickenbacker guitar site. Dane clearly has an axe to grind and thats ok.... But jeeeezzz there are places for that... tons of them. This (as far as I can tell) just aint one of them.
>>>Anybody who seriously thinks he himself has all the answers hasn't asked enough questions. We three are beyond that.
Well said. As a newbee here, you surely know Dane better than I, and I appreciate your take on things. My intent is not to get into WWIII here and I've tried to state just that. Obviously I dont know Dane personally, but my take on him is that he's a college kid who's head is filled with slogans instead of knowledge. If I'm wrong, then so be it.... that is still my impression.
Anyways...... Hi Dane..... I aint your enemy.... I'm just another Ric and Beatles fanatic who comes to this site to discuss and share info on those topics. Rock on, buddy, rock on. Lets just stay focussed. And (in my humble opinion) our focus is NOT President Bush.... either pro or con.
and..... for no reason whatsoever ..... :
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
Yo, Kent...I ain't your enemy, either...nor am I a 'college kid', however, regardless of what my head's full of. I was one for a while, back in the twentieth century...I was a National Merit Scholar in '73 and went to Pepperdine University on a President's Award Scholarship for Math and Physics. After a year of listening to my 'colleagues' breathlessly discussing ordinance, kill ratios and which arms manufacturers paid the highest starting salaries, I had had enough...if I ever do go back to school, it won't be to study anything of use to the pig...
My take on you is...I don't have a take on you, man, or anyone whose history and circumstance I'm unaware of. But being wrong about something, saying 'so be it' and clinging to one's 'impression' is, well, a little dangerous...for an individual or a society. Look, we have different priorities, ok? You're worried about aging white men getting 'flamed' on a chat site...I'm worried about brown babies getting 'flamed' in their cribs, if that's not too 'slogany' for you. It's a good thing John Lennon's not still alive and posting to this site, 'cause I'm thinking he might want to get a little deeper than "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" at this point in History, and Dog Only Knows what your take on him might consist of.
"Instant Karma" isn't a quick and easy after school treat, you know.
Ok, that's enough for now...I'm gonna go grind on my favorite axe for a while. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em....
>>>>I was a National Merit Scholar in '73 and went to Pepperdine University on a President's Award Scholarship for Math and Physics.
Congrats... and I don't mean that sarcastically.
>>>But being wrong about something, saying 'so be it' and clinging to one's 'impression' is, well, a little dangerous...
What I said was that even if I was wrong on my estimate of your age, my first impression of you will still stand... after all, you never get a second chance to make a first impression. "Dangerous"?... hmmm... I don't think so. But the thing is that even now after you've shown that my first impression was factually off base, my overall impression is actually confirmed.
I mean come on...... "anything of use to the pig"? I haven't heard slogans like that since my last time travel when (on the way back from 1961 Liverpool) we stopped off for lunch in 1967 Haight-Ashbury. It was an adolescent attitude back then and its even more so now when it comes from someone who is "aging" (your word) and (I would think) would have moved beyond a Jerry Rubenesque mindset.
>>>>You're worried about aging white men getting 'flamed' on a chat site...I'm worried about brown babies getting 'flamed' in their cribs
Gee, when did race come into this? Why do you do that? You don't know the color of my skin. And would your concern for "brown babies" imply that the flaming of differently colored babies be less bad? You just can resist sloganeering and getting in your little jibes..... and that has been my point from the beginning. Why must you do that on a Rickenbacker guitar site?
>>>>It's a good thing John Lennon's not still alive and posting to this site, 'cause I'm thinking he might want to get a little deeper than "I Wanna Hold Your Hand"
If JL insisted on politicizing this site I'd tell him the same thing. John's political views were (in my humble opinion) naive to the max. He was a beautiful musician and great at theater, but that doesn't mean he had any particular insight more valuable than anyone else. It's kinda like when we hear Hollywood actors spout off... I've always wondered why in the world anyone would place more weight in the political stance of a Hollywood actor over your average cab driver or whatever. If only JL WERE here! I'd LOVE to ask him a million questions about the Beatles and guitars and rock'n'roll... but his opinion of GW Bush or Islamic terrorism or whether or not we're doing the right thing in Iraq would just not be on my list of items to discuss.
So what now? Obviously I cant stop you from bringing in your political / social views to this site. Have at it if you really feel you must. Personally, I find it kind of amusing that you apparently lack the self-control required to separate out Rickenbacker guitars from world politics. Was I wrong on my impression of you being a college kid? Factually yes, but looking at the big picture I suspect I may not be far off the mark. I currently work in an academic environment and if there is one thing that the last few years have taught me is that no matter how many PhD's one might have attached to his or her name, it doesn't make them any wiser or astute when it comes to politics and a mature world view. In fact much of what I observe (and only observe since the old saw about keeping religion and politics out of the workplace is very true) can be attributed to "the womb of academia". Many at my location basically went to college and never left. They've never been part of a company competing in the free market and certainly never had to meet a payroll themselves. This has created a very insular mindset where blind criticism, sloganeering and name calling is more than just ok... its expected and rewarded.
So carry on, buddy. As I was telling someone just yesterday, this is a very cute little web site..... just Rickenbackers, rock'n'roll and a little innocent Beatlemania. A little island of fun in the midst of everything else raging around us all. My intent from the beginning was simply to keep it that way. If you can't resist the urge to treat it differently then go ahead and do what you have to do. As for me, I'll stick to the Rics and such. Like I said, there are TONS of political chat sites out there and if and when I feel the urge to discuss those topics I will go to one of THOSE sites.
One thing you might consider is to ask Peter McCormack to create a "Politics Forum". Then anyone who gets the uncontrollable urge can just zip over there and relieve their pent up frustrations. Just a thought.
Aloha.
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
Not a bad thought, either...I appreciate your desire for a quiet oasis removed from politics, and it's not comforting to me to think of myself as a disturbing interference with such an ideal scenario...however...
It's nothing short of amazing to me that you're more than willing to declare people lacking in wisdom or posessing an immature world view...including JL...and, presumably, G. Harrison, who wrote the song "Piggies"...And let me assure you, I'm a hell of a lot closer to being a cab driver than a Hollywood star. I've worked very hard all my life, having been born into a 'lower' class in this most classless of all human societies...and not in Academia, but in "the bricks and mortar" world, where people actually sweat and get injured. I've walked on steel with ironworkers and played music with rice farmers in "third world" villages. You really gotta watch generalizing about people and things you're not fully acquainted with...and stop suspecting you're 'not far off the mark': you cut yourself way too much slack, man.
If we don't pay more attention to 'everything else raging around us', all our 'little islands of fun' are gonna be washed away, and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.
I mean, did you honestly think a chat site devoted to one of the primary tools of the cultural revolution that was Rock-n-Roll would be full of a) Republicans or b) Ostriches?
And...when did 'race come into this'? You tell me, brother...I live in the African-American neighborhood of a major U.S. city...race came into this a long time ago, and we ain't even close to getting beyond it. I don't know the color of your skin? Get real, Casper...
I sincerely invite you to step off campus once in a while...wake up and smell the coffee burnin'. If my attitude is adolescent, I'm happy to be lumped in with JL, GH, MLK, Ghandi, Buddha, Yeshua-ben-Yoshua and every other damn teeny-bopper you don't want to hear from.
And for the record, I think Jerry Reuben is an embarassing sellout. Next time you time travel, check out Nuremburg around 1936...there's a 'mature' world view.
I'd love to stay and 'chat', but I'm on my way to the roof of an art-gallery-owner friend of mine to fix an 'aging' swamp cooler...she can't afford to pay me with 'dead presidents', so I'll be compensated with a couple weeks worth of glaucoma remedy...I'll be thinkin' about you in your ivory tower while I'm bustin' my knuckles...
>>>You really gotta watch generalizing about people and things you're not fully acquainted with...and stop suspecting you're 'not far off the mark': you cut yourself way too much slack, man.
Fair enough. But keep in mind that I made the distinction between the reality of your life experience and my initial impression of how you came across TO ME. Apparently I did not make that clear enough for you.
>>>I live in the African-American neighborhood of a major U.S. city
And that means.... what? I grew up in the Greenwich Village and Lower East Side of Manhattan. You're not the only one who has been around a bit.
>>>If we don't pay more attention to 'everything else raging around us', all our 'little islands of fun' are gonna be washed away, and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.
I just dont share your doom and gloom. Never have, never will .... sorry.
>>>I mean, did you honestly think a chat site devoted to one of the primary tools of the cultural revolution that was Rock-n-Roll would be full of a) Republicans or b) Ostriches?
GOLLY!!!!... you mean there might actually be some real live evil Republicans lurking around here? Please, say it aint so!
>>>>race came into this a long time ago, and we ain't even close to getting beyond it.
Came into WHAT? A discussion of Rickenbacker guitars???? You really need to be able to separate things out. Do you bring race into your selection of Rickenbacker guitars? Do you only buy jet-glos while hurling racial etithets at the maple-glos?
>>>I don't know the color of your skin? Get real, Casper...
Truly a pathetic statement. Racism cuts both ways my friend. Whether I'm, white, black, or brown.... it is YOU who needs to get over it. Do you make a habit of using racial slurs? Or in your world is only ok to do so against those you perceive as be white and male?
>>>>invite you to step off campus once in a while
Now it is you who needs to get real. I've been "on campus" just a few years... and this is the first time I've worked in a university setting. Believe me, I'm certainly not part of the university crowd. I've had a billion jobs in my life... from potwasher to waiter to construction laborer to NYC cab driver to salesman to bus driver to scuba instructor to (currently) mechanical engineer. The list does NOT include tenured professor.
>>>I'll be thinkin' about you in your ivory tower while I'm bustin' my knuckles...
Oh goody. I'll say hi to the 'dead presidents' for you.
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
I'll lay off the White Males the instant they stand up as a class and apologize...I mean REALLY stand up...and promise to knock it off from now on...and please don't say you don't know what I'm referring to.
I didn't say this site, or Rock-n-Roll in general, contained NO Republicans...nor that it should. Just that you shouldn't be surprised that it's not FULL of them...
Look, dude...call me a racist (man, that's hilarious!), call me pathetic, whatever: I can take it... but you better cop to this: I got John Lennon, George Harrison, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, Pete Townsend, Bob Marley, Peter Tosh, Frank Zappa, Jello Biafra, George Clinton, Chrissie Hind and a lot more on my side. Who you got...Ted Nugent?????
Be sure to say hi to all the good folks down at Focus On The Family for me, too...
Ok, Kent...let's get bigger than this, shall we? The most sensible thing either of us has said in this crazy exchange is your suggestion that we try to isolate the strictly political discussion in another part of the site...I'm all for it. I can't promise I'll never slip into a little in other topics...but I'll steer clear of outright Republican baiting as best I can. You should feel just as free to express your side of things, too.
Sorry about the Casper thing...yeah I am angry about some things, but I don't want to be seen as an angry person. I got a friendly side too...I'll try to Focus on the Friendliness...
Man, those Rickenbackers are some fine guitars, ain't they?
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
I just got back from band practice. First my VOX AC-15 started to sound like **** (blown tube most likely) so I fell back on the Roland JC-60 only to notice that the amp wasn't getting a signal from the bridge pickup of the Ric 360.... I could plug in a tuner and get a signal from the guitar but for some reason only the neck pickup was coming through. Ugh. Weird.
Maybe I'll open up a thread about amp tubes if there already isn't one.
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
Sorry to break it to you Dane, but Rickenbackers are built by predominantly brown people in a company owned by very white Republicans. Will you be selling your Ricks in protest?
Rants are ugly, unless you're Dennis Miller (and even then...) If you had a reasoned point it is lost on me because of the method of delivery.
This thread was originally about the legal usage of other people's (specifically The Beatles) intellectual property.
I know many famous and formerly famous musicians, songwriters, etc., and not surprisingly they like to be compensated for their work, much as we do. The difference here is their works are easily stolen/used without permission. The 'suits' may take advantage of them on occasion, but their job is to help assure that the artists are paid for their works.
The law is that if you perform someone else's material for a fee, then they are entitled to compensation. If you are just playing for free for and with friends in your mile-high bunker then it isn't an issue.
Seems simple enough to me, but there appears to be a huge amount of backlash to this based on the belief that the artists in question have more money than we do. That's simple jealousy, not some higher aesthetic.
Opinions, opinions...they're what make up individual human psychology...
It's not that anybody has more money than me that upsets me...that wouldn't be very hard to accomplish, at any rate. It's when people who have more money than many countries do want to nickel-and-dime regular folks that I start to see red.
Oh, my...Rickenbacker employs brown people? Right on, all God's children need jobs. That fact won't cause me to divest myself of my single workhorse Rick...(What is a 'predominantly brown' person, anyway?) Republicans 'own' all the petroleum, but I still gotta put gas in my car.
Dennis Miller is a jerk...but our nation was founded on rants. And speaking of nation-founding...Ben Franklin refused to take patents out on most of his inventions because, as he stated: "We stand on the backs of those who came before us", i.e., much of what people claim to have 'created' is in fact derivative of something that came before. Of course, he also felt that he had enough money already...what a concept! I'd never call Franklin a pig...
I don't have a 'mile-high bunker'...my front door opens onto the sidewalk. Drop by anytime! I think you may have me confused with Dick Cheney...
I apologize for my reasoned point devolving into a rant, but I get defensive when someone calls me adolescent for no good reason.
I promised myself that I wouldn't be baited into any more sillyness from the mouth of Dane..... so I have NO COMMENT! ...... (except to say thanks for the interesting info that since Republicans own all the petroleum that means that all Saudis, Mexicans, Iraquis, Russians, Canadians and all other petroleum owners are Republican.... I'll be sure to pass this info along at the next secret meeting of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy)
Gee... I'm so proud of my self control.
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
I'm surprised that Peter hasn't shut this thread down. I guess if I were in his position, I'd think that it was just a couple of guys letting off steam, but the public aspect of all this is a bit disturbing to me.
The strangest paradox is that I wonder if you guys would be taking these shots if this was not a public forum?
Let's have a virtual beer and move on.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
