Jeffery, if you decide to get a Dr. Z amp, you will probably be pleased. When searching the net for a boutique amp, it was on my short list of amps to test some day. But since I am a beginning guitarist (but longtime audiophile, with the gear to match), I will NOT commit to a bigtime purchase like that until I am VERY sure what I want. I may never need something like a Dr. Z. I am quite capable of modifying my own gear. I prefer not to build from scratch now, as I find that you get a better deal when you get a production amp that is close, then make a few changes here and there. I will probably never own a guitar or bass that retails for more than what my 4004L Laredo does. First, I would have to be a REALLY good bassist to appreciate any difference.
I just created a new topic called "DIY Do-It-All Amplifier for Guitar, Bass, and Steel Guitar" in order to get some interest started in a little "do-it-all" amp that will get people away from all the complexity that is flooding the musical instrument world. I just bought a copy of Bass Guitar Magazine published in England. Mainly for the John Entwistle tribute and last interview he gave only a few days before he died. He has DESTROYED more basses than I will ever own, and probably better ones at that! He was good enough to tell the difference between an absolutely perfect and almost perfect bass, and demanded the very best always once he knew the difference. I would like an ultra low action with strings that never rattle, but I cannot afford the money or time to go through basses the way he did. My 4004L bass with neck that was somewhat abused by the previous owner will just have to do until whenever or forever. I still think it's neat.
I need a new amp, reccomendations?
Moderator: jingle_jangle
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profjeff
Phillip--
The 6 amps that you mentioned are pretty much consumer grade goods (as opposed to professional models), but I think that they are excellent values for the money. I have been playing for nearly 4 decades, and in the 60's and 70's a decent amp (or guitar, for that matter) was way beyond what a typical teenager could afford, and it was usually a MAJOR financial investment for a gainfully employed adult. I particularly remember how out of reach tube amps were in the late 70's and throughout the 80's. These days, the Peaveys, Kustoms and Marshall AVTs offer pretty good value for the dollar and are affordable by players of all ages.
I own a Korg Vox AC-15 TBX reissue, a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 201 (the Vox and Marshall come from the same plant in the UK!), a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, and a recent Ampeg Jet II (also several vintage tube amps from the 50's and 60's, but I do not gig with these). I select one of these four amps for my twice per week gig, depending on my mood and what the set list looks like. All three of my Ricks (360/6 w/hi gains, 360/12 w/hi gains, 650D) sound great, but of course different, through these various amps.
I have been extremely impressed with all four of these amps. After they warm up, they run dead quiet when you are not playing through them, and they all have an impressive array of tones. All of them have solid wood cabinets and good quality hardware. At this price point, you are looking at PCBs rather than hand wired amps, but they still sound great.
If I were to rank them in terms of quality (I've torn each of them apart at least twice) it would be as follows: (1) Fender HR Deluxe, (2) Vox AC-15 TBX, (3) Marshall DSL 2000, (4) Ampeg Jet II.
As far as my tone preference when playing my Rick 360's, I would rank them: (1) Vox AC-15 TBX, (2) Fender HR Deluxe, (3) Ampeg Jet II, (4) Marshall JCM. The 650D simply roars through the Marshall but sounds wooly through the Fender and Ampeg. It is just so-so through the Vox.
Of course tone is such a personal thing, and we all have this elusive sound in our heads that no one else hears.
I have some sound clips and photos on my website:
http://home.attbi.com/~drjeffreyb
The 6 amps that you mentioned are pretty much consumer grade goods (as opposed to professional models), but I think that they are excellent values for the money. I have been playing for nearly 4 decades, and in the 60's and 70's a decent amp (or guitar, for that matter) was way beyond what a typical teenager could afford, and it was usually a MAJOR financial investment for a gainfully employed adult. I particularly remember how out of reach tube amps were in the late 70's and throughout the 80's. These days, the Peaveys, Kustoms and Marshall AVTs offer pretty good value for the dollar and are affordable by players of all ages.
I own a Korg Vox AC-15 TBX reissue, a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 201 (the Vox and Marshall come from the same plant in the UK!), a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, and a recent Ampeg Jet II (also several vintage tube amps from the 50's and 60's, but I do not gig with these). I select one of these four amps for my twice per week gig, depending on my mood and what the set list looks like. All three of my Ricks (360/6 w/hi gains, 360/12 w/hi gains, 650D) sound great, but of course different, through these various amps.
I have been extremely impressed with all four of these amps. After they warm up, they run dead quiet when you are not playing through them, and they all have an impressive array of tones. All of them have solid wood cabinets and good quality hardware. At this price point, you are looking at PCBs rather than hand wired amps, but they still sound great.
If I were to rank them in terms of quality (I've torn each of them apart at least twice) it would be as follows: (1) Fender HR Deluxe, (2) Vox AC-15 TBX, (3) Marshall DSL 2000, (4) Ampeg Jet II.
As far as my tone preference when playing my Rick 360's, I would rank them: (1) Vox AC-15 TBX, (2) Fender HR Deluxe, (3) Ampeg Jet II, (4) Marshall JCM. The 650D simply roars through the Marshall but sounds wooly through the Fender and Ampeg. It is just so-so through the Vox.
Of course tone is such a personal thing, and we all have this elusive sound in our heads that no one else hears.
I have some sound clips and photos on my website:
http://home.attbi.com/~drjeffreyb
Jeffrey, It seems that Ampeg is not the same quality outfit that it was in the 60's and 70's. If the Vox now ranks higher in reliability and build quality, then Ampeg has really slipped since they were taken over by St. Louis Music. The first time I heard an SVT live in the 70's, the sound was just incredible. Nobody seems to have mentioned the old Acoustic 370 bass amp either, and it was the best solid state unit that I had heard in a club environment. I don't think new amps have improved very much in sound since then. Just a lot of gizmos have been added to keep people buying new stuff.
You are right about the Marshall AVT amps being consumer grade gear, but they are OK for somebody using them at home or making short gig trips in the back seat of a car. I would demand plywood cabinets in a gig amp that was getting banged around, and glass epoxy circuit boards. The YCV40 sells at an AVT50 price, but with a little screw tightening and a tube changeout, it moves into true professional gig amp territory for a total cost of around $600 if you change those tubes yourself and buy them right.
Vox and Marshall, being made in England, will probably never be able to compete with Traynor and Fender in value for money to an American buyer. I'm just glad to see Traynor back and giving stiff competition to Fender, Ampeg, Vox, and Marshall. I hope they turn out more new models, especially bass amps. I wonder if Peter Traynor is associated with Yorkville Sound anymore?
BTW, Eveanna Manley, who owns Manley Laboratories (builders of tubed high end studio gear) in California, is the daughter of the guy that used to own Ampeg. They build some fabulous tubed studio gear, with price tags to match.
I'll check out your website. Thanks!
You are right about the Marshall AVT amps being consumer grade gear, but they are OK for somebody using them at home or making short gig trips in the back seat of a car. I would demand plywood cabinets in a gig amp that was getting banged around, and glass epoxy circuit boards. The YCV40 sells at an AVT50 price, but with a little screw tightening and a tube changeout, it moves into true professional gig amp territory for a total cost of around $600 if you change those tubes yourself and buy them right.
Vox and Marshall, being made in England, will probably never be able to compete with Traynor and Fender in value for money to an American buyer. I'm just glad to see Traynor back and giving stiff competition to Fender, Ampeg, Vox, and Marshall. I hope they turn out more new models, especially bass amps. I wonder if Peter Traynor is associated with Yorkville Sound anymore?
BTW, Eveanna Manley, who owns Manley Laboratories (builders of tubed high end studio gear) in California, is the daughter of the guy that used to own Ampeg. They build some fabulous tubed studio gear, with price tags to match.
I'll check out your website. Thanks!
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profjeff
Phillip:
I think that you are right about Ampeg's quality issues since they were taken over by St. Louis Music (they make Crate amps too). My little 15 watt Jet II required alot of tweeks to get it working right, and there still is an unresolved issue with the tremolo-albeit very minor. One of the EL 84's was microphonic (Sovtek). There was also an unidentified vibration emanating from the cabinet. Ampeg made some positive changes to this vintage reissue amp line somewhere between 2001 and 2002 (mine is a 2002). They added a tube retainer for the EL 84's and upgraded a few of the components--but still, it was not perfect when it arrived at my home. I was able to fix everything in about an hour, and I put a pair of Tesla EL 84's in the power amp and some Phillips JAN 12AX7's in the preamp. The tube retainer needed more padding (it was not actually supporting the tubes). I tore the whole amp apart and put it back together...solving the vibration issue. The tremolo still makes a very slight scratching noise when oscilating, but I have chosen to ignore it.
The reason that I like this amp so much is its compact size and organic tone. With no master volume, you have to crank it into Nirvana to get a good crunch, but the tone that results from the extra drive on the EL 84's is well worth the noise strain on the family and neighbors. In a live setting, I mic the amp and it sounds really sweet. It is a perfect companion for a 360/12 because of its warmth and clean headroom (amazing for 15 watts). With my 360/6 and the amp cranked up to 5 or 7, it's instant 1960's tone.
All of my current gigging amps except for the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe had problems with something when I got them home from the place where I purchased them. The weird thing is that the Hot Rod came mail order, and it had not been unboxed since it left the Fender factory! The rest came from (ugh) music super stores right off the showroom floor. The Marshall had a speaker with a scratchy voice coil (I couldn't detect it through the din of bad Kirk Hammett wannabes when I auditioned it at the music store); the Vox had an annoying vibration and a reverb tank that didn't work well (OK, I'll come clean here. I bought it in California and trasported it, wrapped in plasic bubble wrap, back to Colorado in the back hatch of my Beatle through the desert in the Summer); and I mentioned the Ampeg's defects previously. I have adopted the attitude of--"These things are sensitive electronic devices that require careful handling and setup, and some of them were shipped from Europe. So, I kind of expect to have to do some adjusting when I bring them home." If we had more well-run, independently operated musical instrument shops that took pride in their service and SET UP THEIR AMPS, just like they do their guitars (there are a few in Colorado, but none anywhere near my home), maybe we would not have to mess with these things. Then again, for me, I like to see what's inside my amps and what components are likely to give me problems in the future. Also, I like to experiment with different speakers. I own a few extras and enjoy swapping them for a change in tone. Currently, my Hot Rod has a Vintage 30; the Marshall has a Greenback. The other two are stock---is there anything better than the a Celestion Blue in a Vox amp for fabulous Rickenbacker tones?
Sorry for the long post. I'm a professor. It' s part of my job to bore people to death--or is that boar people to death?
Rick photos and MP3's at:
http://home.attbi.com/~drjeffreyb
I think that you are right about Ampeg's quality issues since they were taken over by St. Louis Music (they make Crate amps too). My little 15 watt Jet II required alot of tweeks to get it working right, and there still is an unresolved issue with the tremolo-albeit very minor. One of the EL 84's was microphonic (Sovtek). There was also an unidentified vibration emanating from the cabinet. Ampeg made some positive changes to this vintage reissue amp line somewhere between 2001 and 2002 (mine is a 2002). They added a tube retainer for the EL 84's and upgraded a few of the components--but still, it was not perfect when it arrived at my home. I was able to fix everything in about an hour, and I put a pair of Tesla EL 84's in the power amp and some Phillips JAN 12AX7's in the preamp. The tube retainer needed more padding (it was not actually supporting the tubes). I tore the whole amp apart and put it back together...solving the vibration issue. The tremolo still makes a very slight scratching noise when oscilating, but I have chosen to ignore it.
The reason that I like this amp so much is its compact size and organic tone. With no master volume, you have to crank it into Nirvana to get a good crunch, but the tone that results from the extra drive on the EL 84's is well worth the noise strain on the family and neighbors. In a live setting, I mic the amp and it sounds really sweet. It is a perfect companion for a 360/12 because of its warmth and clean headroom (amazing for 15 watts). With my 360/6 and the amp cranked up to 5 or 7, it's instant 1960's tone.
All of my current gigging amps except for the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe had problems with something when I got them home from the place where I purchased them. The weird thing is that the Hot Rod came mail order, and it had not been unboxed since it left the Fender factory! The rest came from (ugh) music super stores right off the showroom floor. The Marshall had a speaker with a scratchy voice coil (I couldn't detect it through the din of bad Kirk Hammett wannabes when I auditioned it at the music store); the Vox had an annoying vibration and a reverb tank that didn't work well (OK, I'll come clean here. I bought it in California and trasported it, wrapped in plasic bubble wrap, back to Colorado in the back hatch of my Beatle through the desert in the Summer); and I mentioned the Ampeg's defects previously. I have adopted the attitude of--"These things are sensitive electronic devices that require careful handling and setup, and some of them were shipped from Europe. So, I kind of expect to have to do some adjusting when I bring them home." If we had more well-run, independently operated musical instrument shops that took pride in their service and SET UP THEIR AMPS, just like they do their guitars (there are a few in Colorado, but none anywhere near my home), maybe we would not have to mess with these things. Then again, for me, I like to see what's inside my amps and what components are likely to give me problems in the future. Also, I like to experiment with different speakers. I own a few extras and enjoy swapping them for a change in tone. Currently, my Hot Rod has a Vintage 30; the Marshall has a Greenback. The other two are stock---is there anything better than the a Celestion Blue in a Vox amp for fabulous Rickenbacker tones?
Sorry for the long post. I'm a professor. It' s part of my job to bore people to death--or is that boar people to death?
Rick photos and MP3's at:
http://home.attbi.com/~drjeffreyb
A lot of the guitar amp problems are caused by cost issues. Out of three Conrad-Johnson audiophile amps I own, only one had a slight problem, and that was a noisy tube. The company shipped me a new matched pair on my word of honor with no request to turn in the old pair of NOS tubes, one of which is perfect. Few guitar amp companies can say the same. Of course, C-J charges $5800 MSRP for that stack of amps, and the price markup on audiophile gear is much lower than on musical instruments. They can afford to stuff in quality components of the sort that are only seen in the most expensive boutique guitar amps, if even then. I mean, the matched pair of tubes I received were NOS Mullard military types. The resistors are metal oxide on a glass substrate. All signal caps are polystyrene. Most filter caps are polypropylene bypassed by polystyrene. Rear connectors are premium Cardas heavy gold plated. Volume control is a 100-step switched attenuator that picks matched pairs of resistors through hermetically sealed relays with gold plated contacts, by wireless remote control. Real fanatical stuff. Just try to find all that in a guitar amp. People will pay $3000 for a fancy PRS guitar, but not the same amount for a 30-watt tube amp of the same build quality. Back in the 50's, 60's, and even the 70's, musical instrument electronic devices were MUCH more expensive than they are now. I paid $450 for a used Peavey solid state bass amp in 1976 that had been gigged with for several years, which is less than I paid for my very slightly used Traynor YCV40. That Peavey had a solid plywood cabinet with wheels and a separate head unit, and it was considered an economy brand even then and sold new for twice what I gave for it.
It all boils down to the fact that you can't get more than you pay for. To get an amp as good as a Traynor YCV40 for the $500 or so dollars you spend on a mail order purchase, I am willing to change out the tubes and tighten down the screws. I want to put in the tubes and speakers I like anyway, so I am not into paying for premium tubes and speakers as part of the amp purchase price. If guitarists want better amps, they had better prepare to pay for something better than quickly made mass market disposable junk. Even some of the boutique amps are having quality issues, according to the posts on Harmony Central.
It all boils down to the fact that you can't get more than you pay for. To get an amp as good as a Traynor YCV40 for the $500 or so dollars you spend on a mail order purchase, I am willing to change out the tubes and tighten down the screws. I want to put in the tubes and speakers I like anyway, so I am not into paying for premium tubes and speakers as part of the amp purchase price. If guitarists want better amps, they had better prepare to pay for something better than quickly made mass market disposable junk. Even some of the boutique amps are having quality issues, according to the posts on Harmony Central.
I made a mistake in the previous post; I paid slightly MORE for my used solid state Peavey bass amp in 1976 than I did for my almost new Traynor YCV40 tube amp in 2003. I just wanted to point out that electronic devices are much lower in real price now, indexed to inflation, than they were a quarter of a century ago. I can't complain.
A lot of people's problems with electronic devices would mostly disapper if they hunted down and bought ONLY quality gear and were willing to spend the necessary amount of cost.
I bought my Marshall amps for their tone, and bought them used at good prices. I knew that I wasn't buying the Rock of Gibraltar of the guitar amp world. The sound engineering is VERY good, but the quality of construction is mediocre at best. It's a really good engineer that can take that lower quality level of components and turn out something that sounds so good. Some engineers have managed to do just the opposite.
A lot of people's problems with electronic devices would mostly disapper if they hunted down and bought ONLY quality gear and were willing to spend the necessary amount of cost.
I bought my Marshall amps for their tone, and bought them used at good prices. I knew that I wasn't buying the Rock of Gibraltar of the guitar amp world. The sound engineering is VERY good, but the quality of construction is mediocre at best. It's a really good engineer that can take that lower quality level of components and turn out something that sounds so good. Some engineers have managed to do just the opposite.
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ricnvolved
I was planning on buying a Fender Twin Reverb for my dakota (when its alive again)then I started reading this message. Has anyone played the 80 watters yet.Either the 2 X 12 or the 4 X 10
and could you compare it to a Twin Reverb or the Twin amp...
I could use the left over money for new tubes, or new old tubes...
And Phillip, you mention wanting to replace the speakers in your 40. I assume the stock ones are better then what comes in the fenders.. woudl that be true?
JP
and could you compare it to a Twin Reverb or the Twin amp...
I could use the left over money for new tubes, or new old tubes...
And Phillip, you mention wanting to replace the speakers in your 40. I assume the stock ones are better then what comes in the fenders.. woudl that be true?
JP
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profjeff
One thing that I have discoverd over the years is that a 15 watt tube amp that uses two EL-84's is one of the most versatile designs for those of us who gig in small and medium size venues. You can really heat up the power amp and get fabulous tones at manageable volumes. With the quality of PA systems these days, a well placed mic can add the needed girth to fill out the band's sound.
Additionally, these amps tend to be portable (20-40 pounds) and sound great at home or in the studio. You can also coax quite a variety of tones by using just the amp's controls and your guitar's controls, although a few well placed effects can add alot of texture. I think that less experienced guitar players tend to shy away from lower powered amps because they don't understand just how loud a 15 watt valve amp really is. We have been misled by the consumer audio industry's home stereo mentality that insists that you need 100+ watts for decent sound.
I am a huge fan of the Korg Vox AC-15 TBX (I believe that they are NOT currently manufacturing this amp--please correct me if I'm wrong) becasue of its master volume and interactive tone controls. Also, the tremolo and reverb are truly outstanding--and let's face it--is there anything that graces a stage with more class than a Rick 330 or 360 and the classic basket weave vinyl, diamond grill cloth-clad Vox?
I have owned my AC-15 for about three years and have probably gigged with it 150 times. I have NEVER had a problem with it. I am on my third set of EL 84's (currently Tesla's). The tone just gets better and better with age (it's mainly the Celestion Blue speaker that is mellowing, I think). Based on my experience (N=1), I would recommend this amp to anyone looking for classic tones from their Ricks. I've seen them go for about $500-700 on eBay, but they seem to be getting more and more scarce. The only thing that I wonder about is how long those PCB's are going to last, especially since I transport my amp frequently. Probably until 2 days after the warranty expires!
Rick and Vox pics and sound clips at:
http://home.attbi.com/~drjeffreyb
Additionally, these amps tend to be portable (20-40 pounds) and sound great at home or in the studio. You can also coax quite a variety of tones by using just the amp's controls and your guitar's controls, although a few well placed effects can add alot of texture. I think that less experienced guitar players tend to shy away from lower powered amps because they don't understand just how loud a 15 watt valve amp really is. We have been misled by the consumer audio industry's home stereo mentality that insists that you need 100+ watts for decent sound.
I am a huge fan of the Korg Vox AC-15 TBX (I believe that they are NOT currently manufacturing this amp--please correct me if I'm wrong) becasue of its master volume and interactive tone controls. Also, the tremolo and reverb are truly outstanding--and let's face it--is there anything that graces a stage with more class than a Rick 330 or 360 and the classic basket weave vinyl, diamond grill cloth-clad Vox?
I have owned my AC-15 for about three years and have probably gigged with it 150 times. I have NEVER had a problem with it. I am on my third set of EL 84's (currently Tesla's). The tone just gets better and better with age (it's mainly the Celestion Blue speaker that is mellowing, I think). Based on my experience (N=1), I would recommend this amp to anyone looking for classic tones from their Ricks. I've seen them go for about $500-700 on eBay, but they seem to be getting more and more scarce. The only thing that I wonder about is how long those PCB's are going to last, especially since I transport my amp frequently. Probably until 2 days after the warranty expires!
Rick and Vox pics and sound clips at:
http://home.attbi.com/~drjeffreyb
Now we are getting into some interesting discussions on amps. The amp is more important to me than the guitar, as far as tone is concerned.
Yes, 15 watts is plenty loud enough for a guitar amp that is used for practice and small gigs, even a big gig if a high quality PA system is available. But what almost nobody seems to consider is how efficient the loudspeaker is that is being driven. If I have big Sound Lab electrostatic speakers with 84 dB efficiency, I will need a 100 watt amp just to get to 104 dB SPL. That is barely loud enough for listening to small scale classical music, such as string quartets, at live levels without clipping. Beethoven's 5th will have to wait until you have about 500 peak watts of power per side to really get the live effect in a large room (try something like a Conrad-Johnson Premier 8 in this situation). That's about 112 dB SPL for a pair of BIG Sound Lab speakers and two space heater amps. Too rich for my blood, though. Now then, if you are playing a combo amp with a Celestion Century speaker in it with 101 dB efficiency, you will need 2 watts for a 104 dB SPL. 20 watts gets you a 114 dB SPL and possible entry into the Pete Townshend Syndrome Society if you insist on cranking it "full tilt bozo" very often. The speakers come FIRST because that is your TONE and then you decide on how much amp power you need to get the required volume (why do most people turn the process around???)Every doubling of power will add 3 dB of SPL until the speaker goes into non-linear operation, or the amp starts to clip. As the amp begins to clip, the character of the sound will change as the peak sound level does not increase, but the average sound level does. That is, the amp output waveform begins to "flat top" or "squarewave" when seen on an oscilloscope. The speaker's acoustic output will show ringing of various amounts, depending on how closely it can follow the amp's waveform. A speaker like a Celestion Greenback will ring quite a bit, while an Electro-Voice PA speaker will stay fairly faithful to the input signal.
As far as speakers for my YCV40 are concerned, if you like a bluesy tone, the Celestion Seventy 80 will not disappoint. If you want a cleaner tone with tight aggressive bass, try something like a Celestion Vintage 30. I have the Vintage 8 in my Kustom Tube 12, and it makes a GREAT little hard rock/metal practice amp when a high gain tube like an Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 is used. If you want the cleanest of the clean, then something like a JBL or E-V speaker is in order, as was used in some Fender amps of the past. These speakers are close to PA speakers in their fidelity. If I were rich, I would not be afraid of trying a Lowther extended range 8" audiophile speaker in my practice amp. Got about $800 or more you want to blow on an alnico magnet version? Jimi Hendrix owned two sets of Lowther speakers when he lived in England. One set to listen to and burn out, while the other set was being reconed. They are made like the finest musical instruments with proprietary rice paper cones coated with violin grade varnish that requires about 300 hours to fully break in. Now you know why Jimi was able to layer his sounds so well, because he was an audiophile with some of the finest loudspeakers ever produced. He heard every part clearly without a crossover to add distortion. They are close to 100 dB efficient, which is something else for a little 8" cone speaker! My Vintage 8 is only 95 dB efficient.
I do not know what comes in Fenders now (I have never owned a Fender amp, but Paul Franklin told me he's owned several and he likes his Traynor about as well), but would assume that Eminence speakers end up in most of them. Eminence makes a wide range of guitar speakers, and the bass units sound very good, but their guitar speakers are not quite as well regarded as the best that Celestion makes. I like the value that Eminence represents. Weber VST is another interesting brand to consider, with many models available, but I have never tried one. Fane makes an alnico speaker that can handle 100 watts, which makes it the only alnico alternative for high powered combo amps. Great for UK players, but a bit expensive on this side of the Big Pond. It came in second to the Celestion Blue for sound quality, and can handle very serious power levels. The Celestion and Eminence neodymium speakers will probably come to be regarded as the state of the art very soon. And they are LIGHT, which impresses me as I am not interested in carrying more as I get older, but the price weighs heavy on my wallet right now.
Fostex came out with a little 8" extended range loudspeaker that is meant to give serious competition to the Lowther loudspeaker, and Madisound sells them for around $175. The cone shape is unreal, like something from Star Trek. Could be a great choice for an acoustic guitarist's amp.
If I ever get a Vox, it will probably be the AC-15 that Jeffrey is so keen on. I strongly considered getting a used one, but my YCV40 at $389 sale price put an end to that notion. Something like a Celestion Century or Vintage 8 or Fane 100W alnico would be my final step up in the Traynor, but the Seventy 80 may be better for the blues player that wants Greenback style distortion.
Don't forget that Traynor makes the YCV20 that uses a pair of EL84 tubes that are run in Class A and costs the same as the YCV40, which puts it way under the Vox AC-15 in cost. You lose the tremolo, but also some size and weight as well, I believe. I am like Jeffrey, and tend to think smaller rather than larger than the YCV40 if I get another tube amp. The YCV40 1x12 is plenty loud enough for me right now, and too much for home practice when cranked. It's louder than the Marshall AVT50. The YCV20 should do well in a small club, and will do large venues if you mic it up. But I base that on the published specs, as I have never heard one in the flesh.
Yes, 15 watts is plenty loud enough for a guitar amp that is used for practice and small gigs, even a big gig if a high quality PA system is available. But what almost nobody seems to consider is how efficient the loudspeaker is that is being driven. If I have big Sound Lab electrostatic speakers with 84 dB efficiency, I will need a 100 watt amp just to get to 104 dB SPL. That is barely loud enough for listening to small scale classical music, such as string quartets, at live levels without clipping. Beethoven's 5th will have to wait until you have about 500 peak watts of power per side to really get the live effect in a large room (try something like a Conrad-Johnson Premier 8 in this situation). That's about 112 dB SPL for a pair of BIG Sound Lab speakers and two space heater amps. Too rich for my blood, though. Now then, if you are playing a combo amp with a Celestion Century speaker in it with 101 dB efficiency, you will need 2 watts for a 104 dB SPL. 20 watts gets you a 114 dB SPL and possible entry into the Pete Townshend Syndrome Society if you insist on cranking it "full tilt bozo" very often. The speakers come FIRST because that is your TONE and then you decide on how much amp power you need to get the required volume (why do most people turn the process around???)Every doubling of power will add 3 dB of SPL until the speaker goes into non-linear operation, or the amp starts to clip. As the amp begins to clip, the character of the sound will change as the peak sound level does not increase, but the average sound level does. That is, the amp output waveform begins to "flat top" or "squarewave" when seen on an oscilloscope. The speaker's acoustic output will show ringing of various amounts, depending on how closely it can follow the amp's waveform. A speaker like a Celestion Greenback will ring quite a bit, while an Electro-Voice PA speaker will stay fairly faithful to the input signal.
As far as speakers for my YCV40 are concerned, if you like a bluesy tone, the Celestion Seventy 80 will not disappoint. If you want a cleaner tone with tight aggressive bass, try something like a Celestion Vintage 30. I have the Vintage 8 in my Kustom Tube 12, and it makes a GREAT little hard rock/metal practice amp when a high gain tube like an Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 is used. If you want the cleanest of the clean, then something like a JBL or E-V speaker is in order, as was used in some Fender amps of the past. These speakers are close to PA speakers in their fidelity. If I were rich, I would not be afraid of trying a Lowther extended range 8" audiophile speaker in my practice amp. Got about $800 or more you want to blow on an alnico magnet version? Jimi Hendrix owned two sets of Lowther speakers when he lived in England. One set to listen to and burn out, while the other set was being reconed. They are made like the finest musical instruments with proprietary rice paper cones coated with violin grade varnish that requires about 300 hours to fully break in. Now you know why Jimi was able to layer his sounds so well, because he was an audiophile with some of the finest loudspeakers ever produced. He heard every part clearly without a crossover to add distortion. They are close to 100 dB efficient, which is something else for a little 8" cone speaker! My Vintage 8 is only 95 dB efficient.
I do not know what comes in Fenders now (I have never owned a Fender amp, but Paul Franklin told me he's owned several and he likes his Traynor about as well), but would assume that Eminence speakers end up in most of them. Eminence makes a wide range of guitar speakers, and the bass units sound very good, but their guitar speakers are not quite as well regarded as the best that Celestion makes. I like the value that Eminence represents. Weber VST is another interesting brand to consider, with many models available, but I have never tried one. Fane makes an alnico speaker that can handle 100 watts, which makes it the only alnico alternative for high powered combo amps. Great for UK players, but a bit expensive on this side of the Big Pond. It came in second to the Celestion Blue for sound quality, and can handle very serious power levels. The Celestion and Eminence neodymium speakers will probably come to be regarded as the state of the art very soon. And they are LIGHT, which impresses me as I am not interested in carrying more as I get older, but the price weighs heavy on my wallet right now.
Fostex came out with a little 8" extended range loudspeaker that is meant to give serious competition to the Lowther loudspeaker, and Madisound sells them for around $175. The cone shape is unreal, like something from Star Trek. Could be a great choice for an acoustic guitarist's amp.
If I ever get a Vox, it will probably be the AC-15 that Jeffrey is so keen on. I strongly considered getting a used one, but my YCV40 at $389 sale price put an end to that notion. Something like a Celestion Century or Vintage 8 or Fane 100W alnico would be my final step up in the Traynor, but the Seventy 80 may be better for the blues player that wants Greenback style distortion.
Don't forget that Traynor makes the YCV20 that uses a pair of EL84 tubes that are run in Class A and costs the same as the YCV40, which puts it way under the Vox AC-15 in cost. You lose the tremolo, but also some size and weight as well, I believe. I am like Jeffrey, and tend to think smaller rather than larger than the YCV40 if I get another tube amp. The YCV40 1x12 is plenty loud enough for me right now, and too much for home practice when cranked. It's louder than the Marshall AVT50. The YCV20 should do well in a small club, and will do large venues if you mic it up. But I base that on the published specs, as I have never heard one in the flesh.
here is a stupid question. I assume all tubes are not the same in that they have different standards for connections.
this is off yorkville web site
"All tube construction with 4 x-5881, 3x-12AX7Asovtek tubes "
now is that 4 tubes that use a 5881 mount?
and 3 that use a 12AX7Asovtek mount
or are thses just name brands of tubes that come in it.
In other words how woudl i know what tubes I can use in teh amp...
JP
Phillip,
thank you for your detailed reply
this is off yorkville web site
"All tube construction with 4 x-5881, 3x-12AX7Asovtek tubes "
now is that 4 tubes that use a 5881 mount?
and 3 that use a 12AX7Asovtek mount
or are thses just name brands of tubes that come in it.
In other words how woudl i know what tubes I can use in teh amp...
JP
Phillip,
thank you for your detailed reply
The 5881 uses an octal (8-pin) socket, the 12AX7 uses a nine-pin miniature socket. MANY tubes use these same sockets, even ones that would destroy themselves and/or the amp if you plugged them in. The EL84/6BQ5 power tube can even be plugged into the 9-pin mini socket that is usually used for preamp type tubes. You can pick from many brands, but 12AX7 and 5881 (which is a military/industrial number for a 6L6B) are tube TYPES. You must stay within a type and any suitable substitutes, such as ECC83/E803CC/12AX7A/ECC83S/7025/5751/and (if you want less gain) the 12AY7(A) or 6072(A) when substituting for a 12AX7. There are many substitutes for a 6L6B/5881 as well, such as 7581(A)/6L6GC/6L6WGB/6L6GB/Sovtek KT66(other brands draw greater heater current than a 6L6 tube, beware!)/and PERHAPS a 7027 if your amp does not have connections for the unused pins on a 6L6 since the 7027 is just a 6L6 with two pairs of pins that are connected internally (consult a tech if you cannot determine this yourself). My advice is to call up Angela Instruments at 301-725-0451 and get some Philips/Sylvania NOS JAN 5881 tubes while you still can for $15 each. That's a Russian tube price for NOS JAN military tubes. Mine tested just fine, but the Svetlana 6L6GC may be just as fine a tube at the same price. Many pros are using the Svetlana 6L6GC in their amps that use 6L6/5881 type tubes, and they are available from any new tube dealer. Electro-Harmonix, Sovtek, JJ, and EI have all recently released new versions of 12AX7/ECC83 preamp tubes that are so good, I will never pay a premium for NOS types again. I have JJ ECC83S tubes in my Traynor amp now, with NOS Tung Sol 5881 tubes for output. I had the Tung Sols laying around and needed an amp to use them up. They go for $90 a pair, minimum, from a tube dealer. I also have a pair of RCA 6L6GC gray plates that are probably worth even more. The value of the YCV40/YCV80 is that the output tube bias is set automatically so you can experiment without resetting the bias each time and do not need to order matched pairs like an audiophile does. You can replace tubes during a gig without worrying about the bias adjustment. Buy your tubes where ever you get a good deal, even in singles. I will probably try using mixed brands of output tube pairs to see if I can get a better/unique tone.
There are many places on the internet where you can find tube substitution data. As you know, the YCV80 is just a YCV40 with another pair of output tubes and heavier transformers and more speakers to handle the power. Do you need the extra volume and weight/cost?
Before going to a YCV80, CONSIDER THIS: You can replace the Celestion Seventy 80 speaker with a Celestion Century speaker for about $175 that has 3 dB more efficiency. That is THE SAME as leaving in the Seventy 80, but doubling the power output of the amp on the YCV40. In other words, putting in a speaker with 3dB more efficiency is the same as going to twice the power output with twice the cost of retubing the amp, not to mention the extra heat and weight. The Century speaker is neodymium, so it SAVES YOU WEIGHT while apparently doubling your power output. That is the way that I would go before going to a YCV80 and putting more burden on myself. The Celestion Vintage 30 will add 2 dB more efficiency, slightly more weight, and a cleaner vintage tone with more definition. It is Celestion's biggest seller and you can get one for under $125 including postage from Parts Express.
The new YCV20 can be upgraded to be just as loud as a stock YCV40 by replacing the speaker with a Celestion Century. If you want a smaller, lighter amp than the YCV40, you might consider going that route. If I get another Traynor, it will be the YCV20 because it is a Class A design and uses a pair of cheap and small EL84/6BQ5 output tubes that cost about $15-$20 a pair. A cheapskate's Vox AC-15 without the tremolo or the excess weight! It could also use a Celestion Blue alnico speaker due to it's much lower power output.
Right now, I like the sound of the Seventy 80 speaker and do NOT need any extra volume.
There are many places on the internet where you can find tube substitution data. As you know, the YCV80 is just a YCV40 with another pair of output tubes and heavier transformers and more speakers to handle the power. Do you need the extra volume and weight/cost?
Before going to a YCV80, CONSIDER THIS: You can replace the Celestion Seventy 80 speaker with a Celestion Century speaker for about $175 that has 3 dB more efficiency. That is THE SAME as leaving in the Seventy 80, but doubling the power output of the amp on the YCV40. In other words, putting in a speaker with 3dB more efficiency is the same as going to twice the power output with twice the cost of retubing the amp, not to mention the extra heat and weight. The Century speaker is neodymium, so it SAVES YOU WEIGHT while apparently doubling your power output. That is the way that I would go before going to a YCV80 and putting more burden on myself. The Celestion Vintage 30 will add 2 dB more efficiency, slightly more weight, and a cleaner vintage tone with more definition. It is Celestion's biggest seller and you can get one for under $125 including postage from Parts Express.
The new YCV20 can be upgraded to be just as loud as a stock YCV40 by replacing the speaker with a Celestion Century. If you want a smaller, lighter amp than the YCV40, you might consider going that route. If I get another Traynor, it will be the YCV20 because it is a Class A design and uses a pair of cheap and small EL84/6BQ5 output tubes that cost about $15-$20 a pair. A cheapskate's Vox AC-15 without the tremolo or the excess weight! It could also use a Celestion Blue alnico speaker due to it's much lower power output.
Right now, I like the sound of the Seventy 80 speaker and do NOT need any extra volume.
Wow that mag on the century speaker is tiny. I used to play with Neo mags. they are amazing. One the size of an old silver dollar could easily hold like 70 lbs of iron.
I always wondered why speakers didnt use them.
I dont really need the vollume, or the extra weight of teh 80 watt. and I will be moving this thing around 2 or 3 times a week. but I am a sucker for more things on anything I buy. I probably woudl have fallin for it again, bought the 80 and been very happy other then moving it around, if it hadnt been for you.
Now, getting the 40 and using the Neo mag speaker to lighten it sounds great. I still dont need teh vollume but wouldnt mind less weight.
I wouldnt mind seeing a 2- 10" version of the 40 though, and then get the 1- 12" closed box expansion cab. For a fuller tone
but there I go again looking to add "stuff"
I guess all I really want is tremendous clean tone with a reverb available. I am planning to use an external overdrive or distortion pedal. but still only need/want light distortion.
If anyone has an Acoustic electric and a YCV 40 I would much appreciate it if they woudl plug in and tell me how it sounds. If it can handle the full spectrum/overtones of an acoustic.
I know you dont generally play accoustis through ele amps, but having a piezo on my guitar I would like to have that option. Currently the Fender Twin Reverb has been the best candidate.
when my rickey is finally done Ill run up to hubbard music and try them both out for camparison. although it will be tough considering I could majorly alter the tone of eother by changing speakers or tubes...
Thanks for all the info Phillip
Your probably saving me from years of a burdened shoulder... at a higher price - lol
I always wondered why speakers didnt use them.
I dont really need the vollume, or the extra weight of teh 80 watt. and I will be moving this thing around 2 or 3 times a week. but I am a sucker for more things on anything I buy. I probably woudl have fallin for it again, bought the 80 and been very happy other then moving it around, if it hadnt been for you.
Now, getting the 40 and using the Neo mag speaker to lighten it sounds great. I still dont need teh vollume but wouldnt mind less weight.
I wouldnt mind seeing a 2- 10" version of the 40 though, and then get the 1- 12" closed box expansion cab. For a fuller tone
but there I go again looking to add "stuff"
I guess all I really want is tremendous clean tone with a reverb available. I am planning to use an external overdrive or distortion pedal. but still only need/want light distortion.
If anyone has an Acoustic electric and a YCV 40 I would much appreciate it if they woudl plug in and tell me how it sounds. If it can handle the full spectrum/overtones of an acoustic.
I know you dont generally play accoustis through ele amps, but having a piezo on my guitar I would like to have that option. Currently the Fender Twin Reverb has been the best candidate.
when my rickey is finally done Ill run up to hubbard music and try them both out for camparison. although it will be tough considering I could majorly alter the tone of eother by changing speakers or tubes...
Thanks for all the info Phillip
Your probably saving me from years of a burdened shoulder... at a higher price - lol