Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I used the 3 part Maguires (SP?) on mine and much of the yellow came off in the cleaning step. It is still not bright white but it is whiter than it was when I got it.

I'm not sure what that is, Ted. Is that sandpaper or a cleaning wax?

Meguiar's. Use their compound, then their glaze, then one of their waxes. But 3M makes a better line, IMO.

Rickenbacker uses Menzerna on a sewn buff to compound and glaze the guitars at the factory. Stew-Mac sells a setup to buff guitars; it's about $200 plus the cost of a nice motor. Then the Menzerna is about $25.00 a stick.

This will remove tobacco and environmental pollution, but will not remove the UV-caused yellowing. The only sure way is a refin. And that will yellow over time again.

White costs money--how much do you want to spend?

JH said they will never do a white guitar again, because the redo rate was unacceptably high. White shows every bit of tiny junk in the air. You really need a positive pressure clean room to spray it, and of course paint must be sprayed in a negative pressure environment...

Paul, epoxy resin actually makes an excellent base for paint or varnish. You need to be sure it's properly cured and then sand it, both to get it smooth and to give it some tooth. If it's a resin that's prone to amine blush (a waxy hardener byproduct that forms on the surface of some types of epoxy as they cure) you need to wash that off thoroughly with water and a Scotchbrite pad before sanding. Once it's prepared, epoxy is one of the most stable, trouble-free paint/varnish bases you can buy, especially in wet environments.

Unlike Rickenbackers, boats spend a lot of time going through rather drastic changes in temperature, wetness, etc. and decent quality paint or varnish that's been properly applied over epoxy almost never delaminates, peels, cracks or the like. It's a much more stable paint base than bare wood. It's also no different from painting something made of fiberglass. If your paint will stick to a properly prepared Corvette, it will stich to sanded epoxy just as well.

I noticed that Luthier's Mercantile International is now selling "new" System-3 epoxy resin to use as a grain filler and sealer under their KTM-9 waterbased guitar varnish. They even have a link to Doolin's website where he explains how to use it. System-3 epoxy is hardly new and was invented for....wooden boatbuilding. It's the number two brand and widely used. I found the KTM-9 varnish to be a bit soft for my taste, compared to the CV on my Rics and my old nitro-finished guitars, but it is easy to apply if you don't mind spending a lot of time holding a spray gun (needs quite a few coats to get enough to sand and buff). It does also stick fine to epoxy resin, though anybody who's willing to work with CV will surely get a tougher finish with half the coats. So now you can seal your guitar with boat resin and then color and finish it with automotive clearcoat.

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Filler&NameProdHeader=System+3+Epoxy+Filler

Another one that may eventually show up in the custom guitar business is C.P.E.S. (Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer - think solvent-diluted epoxy resin). It was originally designed for stabilizing rotten wood, but is also being used as a primer coat under paint and varnish. It tends to be merchandized like snake oil, but almost everybody agrees that it's a superb base coat that extends the life and adhesion of painted or varnished surfaces.

http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/cpes.html

Unless you plan on using your 4001 as a canoe paddle, I don't believe there will ever be a need to epoxy-seal guitars before varnishing, but I'm sure it could be done. I can also see where the clarity of either plain resin or lightly-filled epoxy mixes to use as a grain filler on woods with big pores, like walnut might work quite well.

I used an epoxy specially made for wood to build one of my basses. My only complaint, and this is with epoxy in general, is that sometimes the glue seems swell and you can feel them. This isn't really a problem if you have a hard finish like lacquer, but I sanded the finish off the back of the neck to reshape it, and now I can feel the glue seems...

I always used catalyzed nitrocellulose lacquer, but my friend likes to use automotive acrylic lacquer on his guitars because it doesn't have that amber look. I like the amber look on natural wood though, and gave my instruments a coating of Watco oil before spraying the nitrocellulose lacquer top coats.

A very interesting thread guys.

I'd take it that the guy who sprayed this white nearly 40 years ago knew his subject matter then...

That's too cool Wints!

Ack!

The (in my dreams...) 75th Anniversary Bass!

Andrew, is that a refin?

Yes Rikk...from 1967!

Is that the Bee Gee's bass?

White on white is so sharp looking.

David,

Yes it is.

I totally agree Rikk.
This should hopefully be arriving soon to compliment it...

Wints, was it clearcoated? I would guess that if it is, it's acrylic clearcoat, but most likely it's not. It is painted in white acrylic lacquer (I'm guessing again) and has seen light duty (that's obvious but essential).

Acrylic lacquer is micro-thin. There would have been lots of coats put on and possibly rubbed-out (AL can be rubbed out but it is MUCH harder than nitro).

Nitrocellulose should have yellowed, and if it was done in '67, catalyzing clearcoat (conversion varnish) chemistry was in its infancy back then.

These are all guesses, and it would be an education to see this babe in the flesh, so to speak!

But it sure looks like the man knew his stuff, at least from the photos!

That's a pretty comprehensive reply Paul!

I'll send you some close ups and you can hopefully tell me more!